BK2 versus ESEE 5

grogimus said:
I would.

For my pick between the two- I wouldn't. I like 'em both a lot and they won't be going anywhere anytime soon. I think they're both much improved with aftermarket scales, and I think the 5's sheath is a pretty huge improvement over the 2's.
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Well it's not. It doesn't cover the handles or sheath. So have fun paying $25+ more onto an already inflated price if your handles break.
 
ALLHSS said:
Well it's not. It doesn't cover the handles or sheath. So have fun paying $25+ more onto an already inflated price if your handles break.
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I think you made your point in your thread in the feedback section but I won't be letting someone throw my 5 so I'm not worried about my handles breaking. No worries though, if they do break I will have an absolute blast paying for replacements. I'll invite some friends over, have some music, some beers, throw around some confetti, there may even be an inflatable giraffe floating around.

Inflated price- relative to what? I have about as much scratch in my BK2 after adding micarta handles as I do in the 5, and I'll have more if I upgrade the sheath. And I don't mind one bit. They're both fantastic companies.
 
grogimus said:
I think you made your point in your thread in the feedback section but I won't be letting someone throw my 5 so I'm not worried about my handles breaking. No worries though, if they do break I will have an absolute blast paying for replacements. I'll invite some friends over, have some music, some beers, throw around some confetti, there may even be an inflatable giraffe floating around.

Inflated price- relative to what? I have about as much scratch in my BK2 after adding micarta handles as I do in the 5, and I'll have more if I upgrade the sheath. And I don't mind one bit. They're both fantastic companies.
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I said don't be sure of the ESEE warranty being unconditional. You said you would. You apparently are aware that it is not unconditional, because you must have seen Mr. Perrin's words in my thread where he said handles and sheaths aren't covered. If they're not covered, and that is not stated in the warranty, then it is not unconditional. It's as simple and clear as that.

I'm not going to argue because I have the correspondence and I experienced it.

Enjoy your party.
 
JJR512 said:
So what I'm wondering is what are the practical differences between these two knives? Now I know this is the Becker forum and I fully expect to hear the Becker love. But I don't want fan opinions, I want practical information. Don't just tell me the BK2 is better, tell me WHY it's better. Tell me WHY I should stick with the BK2 and not bother with the ESEE 5.
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Neither one is going to be very good at either slicing or chopping - they're very much all arounders, jacks-of-all-trades but masters of none. And although ESEE's quality is generally better as far as F&F goes, I don't think you'll notice a large difference between performance in their steel. So that said, I'm simply going to talk about the design.

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Handles

The 5 has micarta scales, which are much better than the very slippery scales of the BK2. But because you can put micarta scales on your BK2 and still come in under the cost of a 5 (or simply use some hockey tape for far less), I view that as almost a wash. The BK2 is much better balanced in the hand than the 5, and the scales are much more comfortable. The 5's glass breaking pommel sounds cool, but in reality it's just uncomfortable and gets in the way.

Sheath

Depends what you want to do with this. If you just want a simple, stock sheath to wear low on your belt, the BK2 is the way to go. If you're thinking about customizing your rig, the 5 is the way to go.

Coating

I'm always found ESEE's coating to be far superior, but I've heard that the recent updates to the Becker coating close the gap a bit.

Blade Design

Just like the handle, I found the BK2's blade to be better balanced. IIRC, the blade has a little more height, and the cutting edge comes a little closer to your pointer finger. But it's not a significant advantage.

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I think you'd be better served by the ESEE 6 than either of these knives, but between these, my vote would go for the BK2. It's a better value and just plain handles better IMO. The 5 is a very nice knife but not as practical and comfortable as I would like.
 
A third option nobody's mentioned is the BK12 aka RSK. It's cost is closer to the ESEE 5, made by Rowen just like ESEE, but it's lighter and slicier than either of the other two knives in this discussion. It deserves serious consideration IMO.
 
Becker every time.

The blade designs are good in both cases. They will cut! :D

The much-touted "special" HT that Rowen supposedly gives ESEE blades is, quite frankly, baloney sausage. It's perfectly fine, but it's nothing special. And you can quote me on that until I'm proven wrong!

Despite all the marketing and internet jibber-jabber, I've never seen a single honest side-by-side review that could tell any difference at all between an ESEE and a Ka-Bar or Becker for toughness, edge-holding or anything else. Don't believe the hype.

FACT: 1095 is good, simple steel that only gets so hard, no matter how you quench it. It's just a matter of how far you temper it back then... and ESEE and Becker/Ka-Bar blades are tempered about the same. So don't believe the hype.

Personally, I don't care for ESEE handles. They're too blocky and edgy for my comfort, and especially considering the higher price, they just seem half-vast and unfinished.
 
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If you picked up both knifes, one in each hand the Becker wins on feel. Essentially same steel, slightly different blade shape. The Esee sheath may be a deal maker for some. I ordered a handmade leather sheath off ebay which I like better than anything available from either maker.
 
I've had the opportunity to hold and use both (on a short term basis as they weren't mine). Both performed pretty much the same other than the here or there from the slight grind difference. There's also many posts about how the steels themselves perform basically the same in the long term.

I can honestly say that for me, it just comes down to 3 things, in order:
-which one feels better in your hand. I liked the BK handle shape, but preferred the micarta slabs on the ESEE. Of course, you can get micarta or G10 for a BK, and you can get contoured micarta or G10 for the ESEE. So this is null.
-Next up is the sheaths. I like the BK22 sheath better than the stock ESEE sheath, but personally I would be making or ordering a new sheath for either. This also becomes null.
-Price: this is all that's left at that point. So in the end, personally, the BK wins, even after new handles and sheath, as I would have done handles and sheath on either.
 
KingMC said:
I think Beckers have a better handle design, a better blade grind and profile, and a more subdued look to them. I think ESEE knives have a more aggressive look to them (more text on the blade, more militaristic design w/ glass breaker, etc. ), a grind that looks a bit less useful than the Becker, and a handle that isn't as comfortable to use long-term. The only argument is for a better warranty, of which I say while ESEE has a better warranty in writing I think both companies stand behind their knives to the point that one shouldn't worry about either company's warranty.

All that aside, since the ESEE is pricier than the Becker and shows no improvement over it, I would 100% choose the BK2 over the ESEE-5.
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In my experience, Rowen's heat treat is better as is his quality control. ESEE isn't just a name. You are paying for consistency. That said, I REALLY like the Becker designs. I only wish Ka-bar had the same level of quality control. Six-Sigma doesn't mean crap if no one is there to verify workers are following the processes.

I prefer the BK2 to the ESEE 5 but still, that's going to have to be a statement specific to the BK2. Our current BK2 is a tiny bit softer than I think it should be. Hell yeah I can beat the crap out of it but it holds an edge like crap too. Easy to sharpen, sure. It just doesn't seem like Ka-bar has done a good job managing their quality control. I think this is my third post tonight where I mention this? Damn, I must be on the war path or something. I guess this is what you get to save $40 plus per knife? The risk that the heat treat or 1095 cro-van sucks.

My conclusion is that you should get a Becker knife, beat the living crap out of it and if it survives, you win. If not, pray that Ka-bar ships a replacement to you before the SHTF and you'd better pray that replacement is the knife you tried to buy the first time around.

Survivormind
 
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Survivormind said:
In my experience, Rowen's heat treat is better as is his quality control. ESEE isn't just a name. You are paying for consistency. That said, I REALLY like the Becker designs. I only wish Ka-bar had the same level of quality control. Six-Sigma doesn't mean crap if no one is there to verify workers are following the processes.

I prefer the BK2 to the ESEE 5 but still, that's going to have to be a statement specific to the BK2. Our current BK2 is a tiny bit softer than I think it should be. Hell yeah I can beat the crap out of it but it holds an edge like crap too. Easy to sharpen, sure. It just doesn't seem like Ka-bar has done a good job managing their quality control. I think this is my third post tonight where I mention this? Damn, I must be on the war path or something. I guess this is what you get to save $40 plus per knife? The risk that the heat treat or 1095 cro-van sucks.

My conclusion is that you should get a Becker knife, beat the living crap out of it and if it survives, you win. If not, pray that Ka-bar ships a replacement to you before the SHTF and you'd better pray that replacement is the knife you tried to buy the first time around.

Survivormind
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You do seem to be on a bit of a war path about this :p.

All I can say is what I have experience with, and what I've seen others do on this forum. Out of the Kabar/Beckers that I have, none of them have had any HT problems, and it seems the vast majority of other users seem to have similar experiences. I personally will continue to suggest that between ESEE and Becker... people get the blades profiles they prefer/fit them best, as I feel the "performance" differences are very minor.

And if you've been wanting a BK7, but feel on the fence between it and an ESEE 6 for some reason, why not just get the BK12? Becker handle design, rowen produced blade. Seems like a win/win for your preferences :).

I agree about the last statement though, just would change it to every brand and not just Becker :thumbup:. Any company can have a missed HT on a blade, so I'd advocate that they all be given a good once over in the backyard/garage/car camping trip where if it fails, nothing is compromised/risked.
 
:thumbup:

I think that for those of us that use the crap out of our knives, like myself, the performance difference aren't very minor anymore.

Gonna look into the BK12. I like that idea.

Survivormind
 
Survivormind said:
:thumbup:

I think that for those of us that use the crap out of our knives, like myself, the performance difference aren't very minor anymore.

Gonna look into the BK12. I like that idea.

Survivormind
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If I was choosing between the ESEE 6 and the BK12, I would choose the BK12 every time (I like Becker handles and I dislike choils... pretty easy choice in that light). I bet you'd be very happy with it :).

I don't know about "using the crap" out of my Beckers, but I haven't/don't baby them. I've batoned through stuff I probably shouldn't have (the BK9 has shown some deflection at times, but I've never been able to get the BK2 to deflect), but have limited it to use on wood, as I have no need to chop metal or cinder blocks. Edge retention has been good/great (within expectations/comparisons to other 1095 I have), and corrosion resistance once patina'd seems pretty good.

Maybe you got "bad" blades? Maybe I got "good" blades? All I know is I haven't seen hoards of people with bad/broken blades clamoring about it here in the Becker or Kabar subforums. And its kind of hard not to have those two things (the ones I have + not seeing many problems here) leave me with anything other than a positive opinion. Maybe its because I have older roll stamped models? No idea.

Anyway, as we both said before, the design of the Becker blades is what we like. If they did somehow move to someone else, I'd still probably buy them. The handle design/material means I can grab out out of the box and go use them for hours and not get blisters :thumbup:.
 
I love the Becker knives that I own. I want more of them. Ka-bar is who I've been frustrated with lately and even then, I'm bitching about what most people would probably never notice or even care about if they did notice. I've never broken a Becker anyways, just other knives from Ka-bar. I'm just bitching to bitch, I guess. I got it out. I'm done. Eyeballing the RSK MK2 at the moment...
 
I even like the girverey scales on all the large Beckers and the Tweeners . Yes I have micarta on a couple , had to see what all the fuss was about and I think all I like better is the way Micarta looks . But imo the stock scales work for me just fine even WET . I do like the tkc on my 24.
 
Oh ya have not had any heat treat problems either . I'am in shock at how well the edge holds up split wood for the night and than slice go slice tomatoes and onions WTH ? Can't ask for than that .
 
I have both and wouldn't have it any other way. They are both great knives. My wife does not allow me to have variety with woman anymore so I satisfy my need for variety with steel.

If I must recommend one or the other I would say this. If you are happy with the stock bk2, with the grivory scales and the plastic or molle sheath, then go with the bk2. If you are going to want to upgrade the bk2 with micarta scales and a custom kydex sheath, then go with the Esee 5. I am more than happy with my stock bk2 but if your gonna upgrade it, you might as well go with the higher end knife.

Just my .02. Good luck.
 
I have a 2 and a 12. The 12 is my favorite for camp and woods use. I find its balance with the weights removed perfect for me. It definitely is used for cutting more then wood processing and it cuts much better then the 2. Worth the money in my opinion.
 
I'd pick the BK-2. I held an ESEE-5, and it felt like a 2x4. I'm sure performance would be solid, but the ergos are not great.
The E-6, on the other hand, felt great to me, even with the slabby handles. Go figure.
 
daizee said:
I'd pick the BK-2. I held an ESEE-5, and it felt like a 2x4. I'm sure performance would be solid, but the ergos are not great.
The E-6, on the other hand, felt great to me, even with the slabby handles. Go figure.
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Ditto on everything.
 
I like the ESEE 6 but I like Ethan's ergos even more. I am leaning towards the Doug Ritter RSK MK2 at this time. The hande is just so much better for so many reasons. Also digging the drop point on the RSK. It's in nearly the centerpoint of the blade. But the real test would be to see how it stands up to the BK5...

Survivormind
 
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