BK9 - poor QC

[dougli]

I just purchased a new BK9. The blade had a deep gouge on the "top" side, and a smaller one on the "bottom" side. This damage was done before the blade was black-coated, in other words it left the factory this way. This type of problem is unthinkable on a new knife unless it is labeled as a Second. I am returning it for a refund. The only other BK&T that I've had is a BK1, which came in proper new condition. But I won't be buying any more Beckers, given this 50/50 defect ratio. I'd also like to mention that the upper 2 tiedown rivets on the BK9 sheath are left sharp on their backs, which causes deeps scratches to form on a belt on which it is hung. I know these Beckers are inexpensive knives, but this BK9's problems are unacceptable at any price.

 

[ColoradoDave]

Not to sound like I'm making some kind of "negative defense" of Camillus here ... but I've had kind of a run of bad luck with production and semi-production knives lately myself.

I don't buy a lot of knives, but the fact is, the only knife I've purchased in nearly a year that I wasn't instantly disappointed with the moment I opened the package was a BK11 I got about a month and a half ago. And the BK11 is the least expensive knife I've bought in probably the past couple years.

Which I guess just goes to show, QC problems happen, and no manufacturer is immune.

Luckily, the companies to whom I've had to return knives have been very accommodating so far, and have (or in one case, will be soon) sending me replacements. I would be surprised if Camillus doesn't do the same. Yeah, it's a PITA to have to send them back, but compared to the hassle you get with just about every other company you have to deal with in our modern economy—phone company, car dealers/auto repair, banks, brokers, insurance companies, you name it—knife manufacturers are a pretty decent bunch, and at least respect you as a customer when you have a problem.

About the sharp rivets on the BK9 sheath, I know first-hand about that. Same thing on the BK9 I got about a year ago. Since I don't use ALICE clips, I just cut some flexible plastic strips to cover the back side of the rivets both at top and bottom of the sheath, punching holes in the plastic to match the rivets in the sheath, and lashed them on with lengths of cord through the rivets. Not that you should have to fix your sheath so that it doesn't ruin your belt and clothes, but I guess stuff like this is part of most hobbies.

Anyway, I hope you don't write off your BK9 or Camillus based on this experience. Overall, these are excellent knives at a very reasonable price.

Dave

 

[Burchtree]

Camillus is a good company, and you get a lot of quality for the price, but every once in awhile a "lemon" slips out of every company. The difference is that Camillus will take care of the problem.

Good luck and don't let this keep you from missing out on a great company's products.

 

[TIR]

dougli, you did call them first right? I own 5 becker knives and 2 camillus knives and all have been excellent. This is unfortunate and if you are as busy as most a major pain to go to the PO and ship it back. So far Camillus has been excellent and communicates very quickly with customers so I think you will be satisfied with your replacement. Don't give up on them yet, I just this week sent back 1200 dollars worth (3 knives) of knives to a manufacturer for quality control issues and will still purchase from them because there attitude and service was great. This of course is just me and the way I am.

 

[anomad]

But I won't be buying any more Beckers, given this 50/50 defect ratio.

Based on a sample size of two?

You'll be missing out on some great knives.

 

[dougli]

Based on a sample size of two?

You'll be missing out on some great knives.

Yes, based on a sample size of two. Why would I want to keep buying their possibly-substandard knives when there are so many other competitors out there? I buy and sell many knives, and I have not seen such defects shipped by anyone else. I have seen a lot of various automatics that were poorly fitted, or broke before long, but come on: this is a fixed blade. In this case, there's just not that much required to make a product that one can take pride to put one's name on. I have no desire to give them another chance, because by selling me that particular knife, they have made the statement that they will permit such defects to go into the retail channel. I put myself in my customers' shoes, and I know no one wants to buy this knife from me unless I severely discount it. I have not had any such problems with Camillus knives; I'm restricting my comments to my experience with Becker. And yes, everyone's busy these days, including me, which is why I don't want spend time and money returning products. Good customer service is to be lauded, of course, but what is more commendable is to not have customers returning your stuff due to avoidable defects in the first place. And I'm not so sure about Camillus customer service, now that I think about it. It recently took 3 emails and 2 phone calls over the space of 2 1/2 months to get some replacement clip screws, which I offered to pay for. To their credit Camillus eventually sent them at no charge. All of this is not meant to be a tirade against Camillus and BK&T in general, for they're as human as the rest of us. I just want these posts out there so someone who is considering buying a Becker can consider my experience, then take a gamble, or not.

 

[CamillusColClub]

dougli,
First, let me welcome you to Bladeforums and, in particular, the Camillus Forum. I apologize that your first experience with the forum had to be a negative one.
With that said, if you would like to discuss the "righting" of your purchase, please contact me at collectorsclub@camillusknives.com. Looking forward to hearing from you!

 

[dougli]

dougli,
First, let me welcome you to Bladeforums and, in particular, the Camillus Forum. I apologize that your first experience with the forum had to be a negative one.
With that said, if you would like to discuss the "righting" of your purchase, please contact me at collectorsclub@camillusknives.com. Looking forward to hearing from you!

I appreciate the welcome. I've been lurking around these forums for quite awhile. I quite recently decided that I would start posting my impressions of the knives I get, positive or negative, which seem worth posting. It just so happened that this BK9 was the first knife that I posted on after that decision. Excluding defective knives, future impressions will be a little more thorough. My overall impression is that this particular BK9 would have made a good workshop/garage knife (the blade steel appeared to not be defective), but that it was unsuitable for carry or resale, and thus had to go. Thanks for your kind offer to "right" my purchase, but I've already taken care of that.

 

[Mark Nelson]

My overall impression is that this particular BK9 would have made a good workshop/garage knife (the blade steel appeared to not be defective), but that it was unsuitable for carry or resale, and thus had to go.

Wow they must have been deep gouges if it was useless beyond a workshop/garage knife (not sure what that means exactly). It is a shame that you got a bum knife. I do think that you are missing out on one of the best values on the knife market if you stop buying the Beckers because of one knife. There are alot of others selling knives that are geared for the same market as the Becker line and none of them come close if you base price vs quality. I am sure that if there was a price increase then there could be a better control of things like gouges in the blade. On my BK9 the swedge grind is slighty off on one side compared to the other but I got a great knife for $60 and compared to paying $300 for something like a Busse (just a example) I can live with the imperfection. 60 or so dollars doesn't get you very far anymore when you are looking for a bowie sized knife in a good steel. Just my thoughts and opinions here, not saying they are worth anything.

 

[dougli]

I define a workshop/garage knife as one that's fully functional but unsuitable to be taken off the workbench and out in public.

 

[glockman99]

I've had a couple of the Camillus/Becker BK9, and both were perfect. I'll have another one on the way from "New Graham Knives" today or tomorrow, and I'll report on it as soon as I receive it.

I've also owned a handfull of other "BK" knives, and I didn't notice any problems with any of them...It looks like you have received that one that went past QC while he/she was glancing at something else.

 

[Mark Nelson]

Just curious what do you do with a knife after you have used it for a while/ sharpened it etc. The coating on the Beckers is tough but sooner or later it is going to start to look like crap. So do you still carry it or does it become a keep at home and hide from the public knife. I think that I am in trouble if that is the way that it should be done.

 

[dougli]

Just curious what do you do with a knife after you have used it for a while/ sharpened it etc. The coating on the Beckers is tough but sooner or later it is going to start to look like crap. So do you still carry it or does it become a keep at home and hide from the public knife. I think that I am in trouble if that is the way that it should be done.

Good question. Maybe I'm just too old-fashioned, but when I pay a new price, I like a new product to look new. But then I also don't buy products such as stone-washed jeans. It's perfectly reasonable to expect a knife to show usage wear and tear. What I do with the knife as time goes on depends on where I carry it. I don't clip a folder into the pocket of dress pants whose pocket clip is all scratched up; I either stop carrying it on those occasions or refinish the clip. But a woods knife gets to keep going out, getting its blade and sheath more and more scratched. Who cares? Not I. It's being carried and used in a setting where looks don't matter; only performance does. Sure it looked new when I bought it, so then it was worth the price. If I had bought it used, and it was looking that way, then I'd expect not to pay a new price (excluding collectibles).

OK, maybe I'm the only one here who thinks like this, so call me weird; it won't be the first time.

EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't understand why buying a less expensive knife means that one should expect to encounter more manufacturing defects than a more expensive knife. Sure, one expects cheaper materials and a simpler design, but just how inferior is acceptible with such a knife? Is it OK to leave some blade scratches, to save on finishing time? Or like on my BK9, is it OK to leave the sheath rivets sharp on the back, and let the buyer take care of that problem, quite possibly after his belt is scratched up? It seems like various manufacturers have different philosophies on this, and it helps buyers to know who practices what.

 

[Richard]

And then you just cant please some people. Granted, when I pay for a new knife, I want NEW. However, I also feel I am buying customer service. If I pay for a new one, and it is faulty, then I expect the company to stand up and fix it, which is what Camillus will do. So long as they are willing to do that with the occasional lemmon, then they are ok in my book.

If you want to go on and on about 1 knife without having given them a chance to take care of you, that sounds more like your problem.

 

[dougli]

And then you just cant please some people. Granted, when I pay for a new knife, I want NEW. However, I also feel I am buying customer service. If I pay for a new one, and it is faulty, then I expect the company to stand up and fix it, which is what Camillus will do. So long as they are willing to do that with the occasional lemmon, then they are ok in my book.

If you want to go on and on about 1 knife without having given them a chance to take care of you, that sounds more like your problem.

This is a Becker knife, which I am distinguishing from the Camillus brand. My BK9 has already been taken care of. And if you want to buy knives from a company that builds a higher cost of customer service into the price of their knives because they know that their QC level will inevitably cause people to return a certain percentage their knives, then that sounds like your problem. Nothing is free in this world, and it costs more to do things right the second time than to do it right the first time. You're paying for that when you purchase all products, but it's a higher percentage of the price when a higher percentage of defects are expected. A lower reject rate plus more customer service may cost a manufacturer as much as a higher reject rate plus less customer service, but some hope not. Also, when you take the first approach, you count on your buyers not wanting to go to the trouble to return the problems so that your costs are even lower. I'd rather put my money where I am more likely to get a better product, because they're are a lot of other knife manufacturers, some with different approaches to QC than Becker. But it's all just a gamble anyway, especially over the internet.

 

[Richard]

I see in your profile that you are a computer programmer. So, is all the software you crank out 100 percent bug free? Be honest here. Has a client ever said something to the effect of 'gee, great program, but when trying to do a certain thing, it kind of stumbles here"...ever?

I suspect if you have done any large amount, then it has probably happened. I imagine your response would be, "oh, well lets take a look and get that fixed, now".

What if the same client simply came on the internet and said "hey, he wrote the software and it works, but it has a small fault when trying to do a certain job. I mean, what is this guy thinking. He charges a lot of money so he can turn out bad software, and I will never hire him again since he let a bug slip through."

 

[dougli]

I see in your profile that you are a computer programmer. So, is all the software you crank out 100 percent bug free? Be honest here. Has a client ever said something to the effect of 'gee, great program, but when trying to do a certain thing, it kind of stumbles here"...ever?

I suspect if you have done any large amount, then it has probably happened. I imagine your response would be, "oh, well lets take a look and get that fixed, now".

What if the same client simply came on the internet and said "hey, he wrote the software and it works, but it has a small fault when trying to do a certain job. I mean, what is this guy thinking. He charges a lot of money so he can turn out bad software, and I will never hire him again since he let a bug slip through."

I think you misunderstand my point. I'm not saying I expect perfect knives. I'm saying that a certain level of quality is acceptible, and another level is not. That certainly applies to my own programming. There is no way ANY programmer's work is consistently perfect, and certainly not mine. But if my work was not at least at a certain level of functionality, I would soon be out of work. If my work was too sloppy, no amount of customer service, provided by me, would keep that from happening. My customers do not accept sloppy workmanship. Software fixes are a way of life. But they do not expect me to have to fix it because I did the job poorly and charged them less. Why should you and I accept poorly-finished products when it comes to knives? Cutlery perfection? Hardly anyone would want to pay for it. Sloppy manufacturing? I don't want to pay for it.

 

[Richard]

Ok Ok, you're right. Camillus, this man bought 2 knives, 1 was not right. What were you all thinking? You should consider long and hard about closing the Becker division.

BTW, Love my BK-9

 

[dougli]

Ok Ok, you're right. Camillus, this man bought 2 knives, 1 was not right. What were you all thinking? You should consider long and hard about closing the Becker division.

BTW, Love my BK-9

Good one Richard

Want to sell your BK-9?

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

 

[Richard]

Want to sell your BK-9?

Been using it to hack out some old roots from some old bushes we cleared out. With the amount of dirt stuck on it, it would double the shipping weight and im to lazy to clean it