Black Samurai - needs lesson on ethics

Kimber Pro Tac

Kimber Pro Tac

Gold Member
Feedback: +99 / =0 / -1
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
743
Here is the link: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Olight-m21-flashlight-Maxpedition-Leatherman

Just want everyone to know how this went down, so you can use discretion when dealing with this member. After I committed to buy the light, he went ahead and added more items, then offered them all as a package. I paid for the light at first chance after I got home from work. He apparently accepted another offer on all of it, and refused to honor my commitment. When I questioned him about his ethics, his reply was "well, he was ready with his money, and you weren't," while actually I could have been, had he listed "immediate payment due" in the post. So I would be very weary about any dealings with Black Samurai. I have had nothing but good transactions with all the members here, and everyone treats each other as a gentleman (or lady) with honor and respect. Something this member lacks and needs to learn I guess. Just wanted to share this experience with all here.
 
In all fairness, members can sell or not sell to whomever they want. There is some structure involved with this though. It's very poor form to post a thread with specific terms, acquire a buyer and then add more terms on top of the deal. However, it is also the buyers discretion to tell the seller to stuff it if they are uncomfortable with the added terms. Now, would I be happy spending time, getting my hopes up for a transaction only to be hit with some extra fees, hoops, and hurdles? No I sure wouldn't, and I'd have simply moved on. That is just me though. For every seller here that tries to squeeze extra terms in, make an extra $2 off the PayPal fees, there are about 2 dozen that don't.
 
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It seems rude of to accept your offer of purchasing and then sell it off anyways. Adding 5% for PayPal after the fact is also a bad business tactic. Going to his feedback page though, it seems he has had a run-in with another user as well, according to that he was misleading and bad with communication. For me that would be enough to persuade me to just pass on any deals from him.
 
Your gripe is duly noted.I guess I'd be a little pissed too,but that's as far as it'd go.

Things happen

[edit] Just noticed the 5% ~ seriously?:rolleyes:
 
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Kimber Pro Tac said:
Here is the link: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Olight-m21-flashlight-Maxpedition-Leatherman

Just want everyone to know how this went down, so you can use discretion when dealing with this member. After I committed to buy the light, he went ahead and added more items, then offered them all as a package. I paid for the light at first chance after I got home from work. He apparently accepted another offer on all of it, and refused to honor my commitment. When I questioned him about his ethics, his reply was "well, he was ready with his money, and you weren't," while actually I could have been, had he listed "immediate payment due" in the post. So I would be very weary about any dealings with Black Samurai. I have had nothing but good transactions with all the members here, and everyone treats each other as a gentleman (or lady) with honor and respect. Something this member lacks and needs to learn I guess. Just wanted to share this experience with all here.
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One thing to note is that no matter what happens in a sales thread, you should not crap in it. This section is here for a reason, posting the same thing in multiple places by definition is spamming. The exact quoted text was in the sales thread. Being courteous and graceful in times of discord speak volumes about people.
 
Poor form on Black Samurai's part for sure. Like Rev said, there is no real structure for this, but adding additional terms afterwards is LAME. OP, you're probably lucky you didnt deal with him in the end anyway. I just factor fees and such into my final posted selling price. He would be getting 5% of nothing from me in that situation. And asking a larger percentage than paypal even charges......come on now.
 
RevDevil said:
One thing to note is that no matter what happens in a sales thread, you should not crap in it. This section is here for a reason, posting the same thing in multiple places by definition is spamming. The exact quoted text was in the sales thread. Being courteous and graceful in times of discord speak volumes about people.
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Duly noted..I thought about contacting a moderator, but figured one of you would jump in. Thanks
 
Invective said:
It seems rude of to accept your offer of purchasing and then sell it off anyways. Adding 5% for PayPal after the fact is also a bad business tactic. Going to his feedback page though, it seems he has had a run-in with another user as well, according to that he was misleading and bad with communication. For me that would be enough to persuade me to just pass on any deals from him.
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Yep...live and learn I guess. I, like many if you, are on several forums, and am amazed and appreciative of the quality of the members here on BF, so I guess now that I've had a day to think about it, having one bad experience for all the good is a pretty good batting average. Thanks to all for the validation.
 
Yes, I think he knew better than to keep funds. He did flame me on my feedback page though, which I'm not sure if I can have removed, Anyone?
 
Kimber Pro Tac said:
Yes, I think he knew better than to keep funds. He did flame me on my feedback page though, which I'm not sure if I can have removed, Anyone?
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After you left him poor feed back also....
There was no sale completed between you two. Neither of you should be leaving feedback for spite.
It is an infractionable offense to do so. Only the admin can reverse it and likely will not do so, due to poor behavior.
 
Karda said:
After you left him poor feed back also....

Only the admin can reverse it and likely will not do so, due to poor behavior.
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On MY part? I thought very justified in leaving feedback to warn others here. I did complete the transaction, he is the one that didn't. I mean, when someone checks feedback, that is how decisions are made whether to deal with someone or not in my opinion. I'm not sure most people would scan this section to see if someone doesn't complete sales or trades. My feedback and reputation are perfect, and I'd like to keep it that way.
 
Kimber Pro Tac said:
On MY part? I thought very justified in leaving feedback to warn others here. I did complete the transaction, he is the one that didn't. I mean, when someone checks feedback, that is how decisions are made whether to deal with someone or not in my opinion. I'm not sure most people would scan this section to see if someone doesn't complete sales or trades. My feedback and reputation are perfect, and I'd like to keep it that way.
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No Sale was completed, therefore no feedback.
You should have just made this thread and left it at that. That's what this forum is for.
 
Karda said:
No Sale was completed, therefore no feedback.
You should have just made this thread and left it at that. That's what this forum is for.
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if thats the case, can I sell items and never ship them and be immune to the feedback system because the sale wasn't completed?
 
markksr said:
I saw that ad yesterday and noticed how he waited until after you said "I'll take it." to post this...


I considered buying the camera, but that told me all I needed to know about him...
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So true. This is as underhanded as it gets. I understand the frustration on the part of the OP, he did complete his part of the deal and I think that should open up the seller to feedback. The truth however is that if you want your feedback to remain "clean" or positive, you simply cannot ever deliver negative feedback to someone. It's a seriously flawed system that hides the truth much of the time because people are more concerned with their feedback than they are with using the system in a way that helps us all. I'd say that if you're going to leave negative feedback, do so with no emotion, simply state the facts. When the person responds emotionally, it's becomes pretty clear who the unreasonable party was in the deal. At least to me.

And for those that don't have a problem with the rampant GIFT demands when using Paypal, I think that we're seeing the next step. 5% soon 6% on to 7%......why stop when people will pay? I won't buy most of the knives I'd like to buy in the emporium because of the GIFT absurdity.....and it's just getting worse.
 
00ChevyScott said:
if thats the case, can I sell items and never ship them and be immune to the feedback system because the sale wasn't completed?
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yes, you would be immune from feedback because if you did not refund, you would be banned.
 
I understand the frustration on the part of the buyer.
But I don't know how I can make this more clear...
The seller reserves the right to choose whom he/she sells to. If they did not request payment and it was sent. That is the fault of the buyer.
As long as the payment was refunded promptly in full, that is the end of the deal. There should be no Itrader feedback left, as there was no completed sale. Itrader feedback is only for completed sales. IF a member feels a seller/buyer was unethical or was not treated on an honest manner, then a thread here in TGB&U may be started to discuss the matter.
 
Karda said:
I understand the frustration on the part of the buyer.
But I don't know how I can make this more clear...
The seller reserves the right to choose whom he/she sells to. If they did not request payment and it was sent. That is the fault of the buyer.
As long as the payment was refunded promptly in full, that is the end of the deal. There should be no Itrader feedback left, as there was no completed sale. Itrader feedback is only for completed sales. IF a member feels a seller/buyer was unethical or was not treated on an honest manner, then a thread here in TGB&U may be started to discuss the matter.
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Karda,

No offense intended, this is just my opinion but the seller DID accept the deal. At 12:01PM MT Kimber posted:

Kimber Pro Tac said:
Ill take the light
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at 12:07PM Samurai posted (with no posts in between, obviously in reply to Kimber), clearly accepting Kinber's deal:

Black samurai said:
Kool paypal is youngbloodfly55@yahoo.com please gift or add 5%
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Then, after almost 2 hours had passed, the seller posts:
Black samurai said:
Nothing has sold yet I will combine it all and let it all go for $200.00 questions are welcomed
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So the seller changed the deal AFTER accepting Kimber's deal. Had he changed his mind and the deal before accepting Kimber's deal, or had he chosen not to accept Kimber's deal, then I would be in complete agreement. But to accept a deal and then change your mind? Not Kimber's fault and poor ethics on the part of the seller IMHO.

Of course, it goes without saying that your decision as a mod supersedes any opinion of mine or any other member. Clearly this is just my respectfully submitted opinion.
 
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