Blade Design Methodology

Z

zold

Joined
Jun 8, 2009
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2
When you are working on the design of the next knife blade to make, what are the steps that you think through? What is your methodology to making sure that everything balances out properly in the end product?

thanks,

zold
 
I'll draw it out to get a rough idea of proportions and shape. Then I'll cut it out of cardboard and see how it handles in hand. Then I draw the shape onto a bar of steel and cut it out. Once it's very roughly profiled, I go to the grinder and begin finalizing the profile by feel. Grind, hold it up...look at it against a bright background (checking out the profile), hold it in hand, grind, repeat.

Some makers completely design in a CAD/sketch program, but most will modify things as they need to when profiling. I'd say the majority just work it until it feels right.

Nothing I do is based on rules except for what looks good and feels good to me (aside from thoughts about what function the knife will see). I design and make knives I like. Even if someone gave me a basic design, I'd still want creative license to make it my own for them.

--nathan
 
Sometimes I sit at Jack astors and draw on the paper table cloth with the crayons.

I'll post the knife with original pic.
 
I first think of the desired use. I have done mostly kitchen knives, so I do most of my planning based on design elements I like or dislike in existing knives. This will determine general blade shape and grind.

With that figured out, I then draw the basic idea on paper. I then experiment with wild variations that will still meed the usage needs. I think of what elements I like visually and functionally and combine them. I then trace this design and begin to refine the elements until they flow together. I make subtle modifications until everything "clicks" together. It's obvious when everything works. I then trace onto steel and start cutting.

My designs obviously see improvement in later generations, but the basic function/aesthetics are still there in the paper drawing.

Phillip
 
I draw my knives based on what I think would be a useable, comfortable knife on CAD, and then tape it to the steel and start shaping. Then, once I have a very rough shape, I make it so it FEELS right.
 
Mike, you need to actually build some knives before you can advise how to design them. Not meaning to be hard on you, but you post a lot of advise on which you have no knowledge.Over 1000 posts in six months ( 500 of them in the less than two months), but you were on your fourth knife only a few weeks ago.



I draw them on a sketch pad, making many changes as I go ( I keep all these pads). make notes on the page. Write notes down on the pad as you draw. "Build" the knife in your head. Often you will "see" a problem or missed step before you waste a lot of time and materials.
If unsure, I cut the design out in cardboard to "try it out". Once happy, I forge the shape, or cut from flat stock. Even while forging or grinding, I will make changes as they seem needed.
Once a blade is finished, and I like it, I make a cardboard template with the info written on it for future reference.

A note on developing any idea. Get a pack of legal size note pads. Put one everywhere you normally sit or work. When an idea hits you, no matter how off beat, sketch or write it down. You can go back later and draw it up with more details, but you need to lock down the idea when it forms. I have dozens of pads going at any one time.
Another tip is never tear out the pages with designs or ideas that you decided were no good. They may lead to a better idea as you see them again.
Stacy
 
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bladsmth said:
Mike, you need to actually build some knives before you can advise how to design them. Not meaning to be hard on you, but you post a lot of advise on which you have no knowledge.Over 1000 posts in six months ( most of them in the last two months), but you were on your fourth knife only a few weeks ago.
Click to expand...

Mike, you're not alone in doing this - there are an overabundance of newer faces that are guilty of this, most likely just because they're enthused about having new knowledge to share. It's a very human trait, and one I know I'm a culprit of. I'm reiterating Stacy's post not to condemn you, but to hopefully press a bit of introspection upon others that may be doing the same thing.

I've only recently started to draw my designs out on paper... I am not the most artistic person on the best of days, and it does not come naturally to me. However, it has definitely allowed me to improve the lines and flow of my knives. Things I wouldn't normally see until is was too late become apparent - and erasable! - in short order.
 
Hey Guys,

Hell I got you all beat for fraudulent behavior. Just two years ago I was taking a welding class at a community college, shopping craigslist and yard sales for a buzz box, and scrounging steel off roadsides. I managed to get two forges (coal) built along with hand cranked blowers off ebay. Now I teach this stuff to high school kids. All the while, I'm still developing hammer control and forging techniques. :D I made my first spike knife right along with a bunch of 10th graders just a little over a year ago.

I bet I got some of you guys fooled into thinking I know what I'm doing and that I am capable of doing it. Ha, just the other day I hit myself in the back of the head with a hammer ;). Am I enthused, hell ya! Am I informed, more than I would have ever dreamed possible! Do I want to share, sure! I try to do my best to remember to add disclaimers like, I'm just a newbie, or I've heard it said, or this is what I'm trying, etc.

Thanks for helping to us to keep it all in perspective.

I'm just getting started and am looking at every cotton picking knife I can: here, websites, books, magazines, stores, etc, etc. I've been sketching and modeling in clay and wax blades and handles for a while. Although I have built up a bit of a collection of ideas, I've chosen to focus my learning efforts on a basic design that I love...the drop point hunter. I aim to make many of these basically as an exercise to work toward mastering forging, grinding, heat treating, etching, finishing, fitting handles and hardware, signing, sheath making, photographing and marketing.

As for the OP...Zold, I am most interested in seeing what folks have to say about your question. Thanks for asking it.

All the best, Phil
 
bladsmth said:
Mike, you need to actually build some knives before you can advise how to design them. Not meaning to be hard on you, but you post a lot of advise on which you have no knowledge.Over 1000 posts in six months ( 500 of them in the less than two months), but you were on your fourth knife only a few weeks ago.
Click to expand...

Sorry Stacy. I was trying to hold back like you told me, but this one slipped. :(
 
On your drawings , you will be amazed at how moving a line just an 1/8" will change the looks of the knife .
 
go mike said:
Sorry Stacy. I was trying to hold back like you told me, but this one slipped. :(
Click to expand...

Well at least Mikey seems to remember the proper advise he reads here in the forums . Some advice some folks give just makes my head shake . Of course I could be causing that effect on others . :jerkit:
 
I try to take into account the intended use, and then build around that as to materials used and the basic blade shape, like the caping knife that I am working on now, just in the planing stage now. Then I draw it out and keep changing the drawing till it looks good to me. I must admit that I am new to the design part of making knives, I used to just draw a knife that I liked the looks of and make it, with no thought to the intended use, or best grind or material for the use, now I think about all those things, but probably still don't make the best choices alot of the time. Thats how I do it.
 
Farmer Phil said:
Hey Guys,

Hell I got you all beat for fraudulent behavior. Just two years ago I was taking a welding class at a community college, shopping craigslist and yard sales for a buzz box, and scrounging steel off roadsides. I managed to get two forges (coal) built along with hand cranked blowers off ebay. Now I teach this stuff to high school kids. All the while, I'm still developing hammer control and forging techniques. :D I made my first spike knife right along with a bunch of 10th graders just a little over a year ago.

I bet I got some of you guys fooled into thinking I know what I'm doing and that I am capable of doing it. Ha, just the other day I hit myself in the back of the head with a hammer ;). Am I enthused, hell ya! Am I informed, more than I would have ever dreamed possible! Do I want to share, sure! I try to do my best to remember to add disclaimers like, I'm just a newbie, or I've heard it said, or this is what I'm trying, etc.

Thanks for helping to us to keep it all in perspective.

I'm just getting started and am looking at every cotton picking knife I can: here, websites, books, magazines, stores, etc, etc. I've been sketching and modeling in clay and wax blades and handles for a while. Although I have built up a bit of a collection of ideas, I've chosen to focus my learning efforts on a basic design that I love...the drop point hunter. I aim to make many of these basically as an exercise to work toward mastering forging, grinding, heat treating, etching, finishing, fitting handles and hardware, signing, sheath making, photographing and marketing.

As for the OP...Zold, I am most interested in seeing what folks have to say about your question. Thanks for asking it.

All the best, Phil
Click to expand...

That comment about hitting yourself with the hammer made me LOL. What scares me is doing that while performing a chopping test and cutting an ear off or worse.

I've made maybe 10 knives and have another 5 forged blades and 5 stock removal blades that are 'in the works' and have not drawn a knife yet. I use the grinder and hammer to 'draw'. :)
 
J.D. last fall, I got a 12 point Red Stag, took the rack to have mounted. Well, talking with the taxidermist and him knowing that I am a maker, he offered to swap-out, a knife for the mount. Now this was right down my alley so I said,da#@% skippy.
Anyway, he said that he wanted one exactly like the one that he has been using for the past 4 yrs [and has worn out several] so I say ok.
To make a long story short I made it for him and he was happy. Now the pattern is laying here on my desk beside my comp when I saw your sketch I picked the pattern up and put it over the the sketch[it is plexiglass] It is identical to yours except 3/8 longer handle. His was 3/32 ats-34 with cocobola-full flat grind.
Jerry
 
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I'm still a newb by my own admission, but here's my method. I tend to go into the forging area with an idea in my head, sometimes with some printed photos of knives that gave me the idea. Then I hammer out a blade that (sometimes!) matches my idea. Other times the steel tells me what it wants to be, not the other way around.

Once I have a blade blank forged and ground to a clean profile I trace it on a sketch pad and begin to draw handles/guards on it. I usually go through 3 or 4 before I find what handle the knife wants to have. I find handle/guard design to be one of the hardest parts of this whole hobby...

-d
 
Zold; something I've noticed and incorporated in my own making is, I always line up the pins and the point of the blade in a straight line. I also take the primary bevel to that line and not past it. That way if you think it needs a top false edge, it leaves room for it.

Jason
 
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