Blade failure on 8mm thick Condor Heavy Duty Kukri!

Twindog said:
Every broken blade I've seen looks like the grain size is way too big, like the blade was made out of cast iron. But I don't think you can accurately tell what the grain size is without careful preparation of the metal and high magnification.

If grain size were the problem, I doubt the blade would have broken in what is basically the strongest part of the blade. It would have broken in a thinner place on the blade, probably near the handle where there would be leverage and stress risers to help.

The simplest explanation comes from the visible inclusion and the weathered area near the edge that are good signs of a pre-existing crack. That crack then became the stress riser. Grain size does affect blade toughness, but there is no reason to think this blade would have broken without that existing crack.
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I break lots of knives during testing and properly HT'd blade steel should not look like that. Looks almost like cast steel. My guess is that this one had a botched HT (too hot of a soak perhaps) and caused alot of grain growth that led to a crack and then eventually a break.
 
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Just to clarify how I was using the knife which will allow you lot to bash it out some more. It was about for weeks old from new. Until then used for spliting a few times and made a few walking staffs. All in all not even broken in. Knife never dropped. On the day I was battoning with the kukri and in this case I was hitting the blade ahead of the crack, directly over the section in the wood so no bending forces in the handle. The shock through the blade caused the failure not any bending or torquing force. Lots of talk about the grain and poor heat treatment but in my mind it doesn't make sense. If the whole blade was heat treated badly surly it would have cracked at the thinest point? For it to crack at its thickest point would mean a flaw in the steel at that point? Just a thought. Not that it matters. It happend and that's life :-)
 
It broke there because that is where the force was applied and where the imperfections were present. It looks to me like a bad heat treat and I feel sure Condor will replace that blade.
 
HT flaws can happen to the best; and even a deep fry master might accidentally serve a mouse head in with your chicken nuggets (inclusion in the billet), and who can stop a fly from landing in your soup?! It's great that they replaced it, which is what a good chef does!
 
Mecha said:
HT flaws can happen to the best; and even a deep fry master might accidentally serve a mouse head in with your chicken nuggets (inclusion in the billet), and who can stop a fly from landing in your soup?! It's great that they replaced it, which is what a good chef does!
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Great description. :D :D :D
 
Hi everyone!
I know this is an old topic but I didn't want to start a new one.
I was looking to buy a lightweight kukri that can do some serious work. I liked the way that FOX kukri looks, the one with two grinds (sorry don't remember the exact name) but that thing costs 140€ where I am... That is a bit too much, since I never tried that kind of grind and I didn't know if it was well suited for chopping.
So when I saw this http://s23.postimg.org/bwcwczxa3/IMGP6036.jpg thing, I thought id give it a try, it costed about 40€ shipped to my door. I have another Mtech knife, the big bowie that is a copy of the Trailmaster, that worked out great, it endured a lot of beating and even batonning, and it convinced me to buy the real Trailmaster.
Now when I got the Mtech kukri I was extremely happy with it, after I changed the G10 handle it came with to the paracord wrap that you see in the pic (the G10 was way too hard on the hand while chopping). And, in its defense, that thing did A LOT of chopping (I will post pictures of that if anyone is interested). No batonning at all, the black coating on the blade is still all there.
Then this http://s12.postimg.org/tgrwb3gwt/IMGP6101.jpg happened. I was surprised to find this topic while I was looking up information on the Condor kukri, that I was possibly going to buy to replace this Mtech :)
I find it fascinating that these things both broke around the same place, and its not where you would expect it to break, at the thinnest point (or inside the handle, where the holes are drilled for pins/screws), but where the blade is quite thick. Also, the Mtech is 5mm thick at the spine, and the OP's Condor is much thicker (and better steel I might add).
My kukri has the same coloration at the edge as the Condor: http://s1.postimg.org/4hr91wmlr/IMGP6099.jpg
Now of course Mtech did not respond to my attempt to contact them, as you would expect from a cheap-o Chinese copy knife company.
I am starting to question the kukri geometry all together. Maybe its just too effective of a chopper for its own good. I did realize that there are extreme forced applied to the blade due to its forward shape, and I even expected the thin Mtech one to break while I was pounding on it, but I am surprised to see this Condor accident.
 
knoefz said:
wow... good thing you didn't get hurt
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Yeah, I forgot about this... This is what a 5mm thick blade flying back at you after breaking against a piece of wood will do: http://s23.postimg.org/pk1snk1tn/IMGP6107.jpg
http://s7.postimg.org/vl44xntob/IMGP6111.jpg
I consider myself lucky, I only got a torn up jacket and a permanent scar, but this was way to close to blood vessels and nerves for me to ever try chopping with a cheap heavy knife again.
I cant imagine what that Condor would have done if it bounced back like mine.


PS sorry for the bad quality pics. What can I use to upload pictures directly into my post? I don't have a lot of time for this but I wanted to share my experience
 
not2sharp said:
Heavier blades are not necessarily harder to break. On the contrary, given a similar quality of material, the larger blade will generate far more force, making it that much more likely that the blade material will yield at the point of impact. The idea is to work efficiently, to slow it up and allow the weight of the knife to do some of the work for you. It is about using the right tool for the job and using it in the right way to get the best results without breaking it.

n2s
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I think another overlooked, but related, aspect is the really "low sabre" look of the cross-section here: Many people think a thin-edged tool will be weaker than a thick edged one: The reality up to a point can be the exact opposite: A thin edge profile will decelerate much more gradually in wood, create much less vibration from the impact, and will thus have less chances of developping initial edge cracks than a "tougher" more open angle edge...

Gaston
 
desmond888 said:
Hi everyone!

I am starting to question the kukri geometry all together. Maybe its just too effective of a chopper for its own good. I did realize that there are extreme forced applied to the blade due to its forward shape, and I even expected the thin Mtech one to break while I was pounding on it, but I am surprised to see this Condor accident.
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I have an old GK Kukri, that I believe was made by Kukri House. It is a panawal design and strong as needed. I chopped down many small trees in my backyard with it. Properly heat treated steel in a Kukri will do hard work. It works much better than a small pack ax, a Wetterling.
 
Interesting addition to the thread. Desomnd888, all I can say is the khukuri design (add Kopesh and Falcata to get even older) is ancient and very effective. Proven would be an understatement. Don't worry about the design, just get a quality khuk from a company with a good reputation for A) the product, and B) customer service. Stuff happens and it's easy to find companies with sterling customer satisfaction, and that can be worth it's weight in gold.
 
The Condor example in the OP is a freak occurrence. I wouldn't be turned away from the model as a result of the isolated incident. Now if we started hearing from a ton of people that it was happening, that'd be another thing. :)
 
desmond888 said:
As I said, I'm more surprised that that Condor beast broke, than my own. Condor is supposed to be a good company for chopping implements, no?
If not, what kukri knife can you recommend? Can I trust something like this: http://www.foxknivesusa.com/en/product/1966/fox_extreme_tactical_kukr.html ? I am also considering the Cold Steel Ghurkha Kukri but I've heard some people have had trouble with the handle becoming loose.
Thanks
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The CS Gurkha Khuk is superb. I can't speak to CS customer service as I've never used it though. I have the Gurkha and an ancient CS LTC khuk and neither has developed any handle play. I bought my son an Ontario khuk last year and I'm very impressed with it, especially at such a low price. That might not be a bad khuk for you to try to see if you like them. If you want traditional, HI has some nice users which sell on the Deal of the Day for a good price. And Becker is supposed to release a new BRK khuk this year:)
 
I have the CS Trailmaster, that has worked great for me. It has taken more "abuse" than any of my knifes without any sign of weakness. I felt that a light kukri can do about the same job, once you get used to the strange forward heft. I do not baton with any of my knives though. And this recent kukri accident made me think twice about chopping too. But I imagine the CS Kukri would be amazing at that!
I was less than impressed with their customer service though... I've contacted them in the past for a replacement part and they were very long to answer and not very helpful overall. My issue was not resolved.
I like the looks of the more "modern" kukris, that's why I'm interested in the Fox one, but in the end I am more interested in the reliability, so if a traditional kukri is better, I will go for it.
I will look into your recommendations.
Thanks
 
I like the traditional kukri designs, and have a number of Hi models. For the heaviest work, I recommend one of the full tang, AK designs.
 
Ankerson said:
If the HT was done properly in the first place the stress crack wouldn't have been there AND the blade wouldn't have snapped.....

Even if the stress crack wasn't there the blade would have still snapped or cracked due the blown grain....
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Material defects can cause breaking as well as bad HT does.

i think of it as an isolated incident,
 
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I won't be eating any chicken nuggets anytime soon, or ever; that said, is the OP's blade forged or cast?
 
desmond888 said:
I have the CS Trailmaster, that has worked great for me. It has taken more "abuse" than any of my knifes without any sign of weakness. I felt that a light kukri can do about the same job, once you get used to the strange forward heft. I do not baton with any of my knives though. And this recent kukri accident made me think twice about chopping too. But I imagine the CS Kukri would be amazing at that!
I was less than impressed with their customer service though... I've contacted them in the past for a replacement part and they were very long to answer and not very helpful overall. My issue was not resolved.
I like the looks of the more "modern" kukris, that's why I'm interested in the Fox one, but in the end I am more interested in the reliability, so if a traditional kukri is better, I will go for it.
I will look into your recommendations.
Thanks
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I have both modern (CS and Ontario -my son's Ontario) and traditional (HI and Tora). They have their unique benefits and faults. I don't recommend one type over the other. I recommend both. But, I like khukuri:D You can get lemons whether they're milled on a machine or pounded out by a kami. I can say the CS Gurkha is a great, all-around khuk. It's handling and balance is top notch. My version is coated SK5 and handles seasoned mesquite without a thought, and that's an extremely hard wood. I touch it up with a steel afterward and it's shaving. It also slices thin green vegetation very well. I shudder at the thought of what it would do to flesh, but knife fighting is not on my radar. It's the khuk I would grab if I headed into the unknown. Though my thin bladed LTC has handled more abuse than I care to admit to and would likely do everything I needed for a life time. It has already done that for 20 years. There are traditional models which would fill the same niche. I have an incredible Tora Battalion Issue model and, at 17" and 19 oz., it's quite versatile.

If chopping a lot of wood/small axe replacement is your need, then look at the heavier, forward weighted models. Don't get silly, as there is such thing as too much weight, but the HI M43 around 32 oz. is one heck of a chopper and won't kill your arm too quickly. For my needs, I've found 25 oz. to be heavy duty and 22 or less to be ideal. I can chop adequately with the 19 oz. Tora. The design does the work, it just takes longer. As I said I haven't needed customer service on my CS LTC or Gurkha, but have on tradional khukuri. In my experience, heat treating can be an issue as it's more art than science when using a tea pot. That's when good customer service is a must. I know HI/Yangdu Will take care of any problem quickly, as customer happiness, no matter the issue, is her priority. Tora may or may not depending on the circumstances, and communication can be iffy.

If I was pinned down and had to recommend a khuk, the CS Gurkha is my main khuk. But, HI has a new kami making some khukuri at 17.5" and 21-23 oz., with beautifully curved handles and blades. I'd love to get a hold of one of those and they probably have all you could ever ask for in a big blade. I must add, traditional khukuri, if done right, will have a handle which feels made for your hand, but they usually don't work well with gloves. The CS Kraton works very well with gloves hands. For what it's worth. Good luck.
 
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