blade-handle ratio

There's much more to a knife than blade to handle ratio.

My Benchmade 705 and Spyderco Calypso Jr are basically the same length open, but the 705 has a better blade to handle ratio. In fact both the blade is longer (or more cutting edge at least) and the handle is shorter.

So why, in my hands, is the 705 too small, while the Calypso Jr. is just right? Simply put, the Calypso Jr. is a better designed knife. I could say the same things that I said about the 705 about the Delica. The Calypso Jr. and the Delica are virtually the same size. However, the ~3/8" that the Calypso Jr. loses in cutting edge (to the finger choil) makes it feel much bigger than the Delica.

Few folding knives can rival Spydercos in terms of ergonomics.
 
Also, some folks have very large hands and they want a large comfortable handle to fit those big hands--but they might live in an area where they cannot legally carry a knife with a blade longer than 3 inches.

There are a few knives that I like but I just cannot get a really secure grip on them, my pinky finger hangs off or all of my fingers are crowded together.
Here are a few examples:

Benchmade mini-Griptilian
Camillus CUDA EDC
Benchmade 720/721/722

People have used drywall-knives and box-cutters for years, and they have a large full-grip handle but only have about a 1" blade.
However, the design allows for a tremendous amount of pressure and cutting force to be applied, with accuracy, to that 1" blade.

Allen.
 
Scalpels, non-folding box cutters and 14" machetes don't clip to my pocket. (and my folding Craftsman box cutter spends it's days in the tool box in my truck)

Jeff Clark's post is perfect in expressing my opinion, I have no qualms carrying my Skirmish, but the blade is big enough to justify the pocket space the handle occupies (when the mood strikes me to carry such a large knife)

Edge geometry and profile are where I get my blade performance from. My manual dexterity makes useful any handle that isn't downright painful to hold. If I can get looks, performance, and save some pocket space, I do so without hesitation. Small knives that 'feel' like big knives feel that way in my pocket, but are still small knives when working.
 
In some ways I see both sides. I like big handles for my big hands. But the Calypso Jr. is one of my favorite knives. Go figure. Somehow it just finds a nice comfortable spot in my hand even if the knife does somewhat disappear in them.

The ratio to blade equation seems to be changing a bit. I notice the new Delica and Endura have larger handles now with slightly smaller blades. In many respects I agree with Sal's take on this that handles are for holding. It is nice to have a large secure grip on a razor sharp knife.

As for the Para Military, I think the grip on it was about a 1/2" more than was needed for a comfortable grip personally. I liked the knife. It was easier to carry than either the Chinook or the Manix but all three are too large in the pocket for my EDC tastes, but in truth I'll take a handle too long over one too short any day of the week. :D
 
A Ritter Mini grip has almost the same length of blade, with a much smaller handle. If you're sensitive to blade/handle ratios you might want to consider it.
 
I'll chime in with the big hands argument. I like the Paramillie, but I feel the handle is a touch too short. I don't need a folder with a 4 or 5" blade, but I need a big handle. I also think that the PM is hardly obtusive in the pocket. the chinook and manix are huge in the pocket, and weigh much more. There is the small blade for legal reasons argument, as well, as allenC pointed out. The Yojimbo, and the gunting are 2 examples of trying to follow restrictive legal lengths while having all the handle you'd want in a SD folder. But that's why there are 1 billion knife models to choose from-everybody's got different taste.
 
There is something like a critical size and that depends on the handle shape. The handle of the Para is a bit small for me, while the handle of the Caly Jr. is perfect, even though in physical size the handle of the Caly. Jr. is smaller.

But once a critical handle length is reached, increasing in size obviously doesn't make much sense. So the issue is hardly with knives that require already a large handle because of their enormous bladelength, such as a Cuda Maxx. But if I am limited to a certain bladelength (for what ever reasons), I don't necessarily want a short handle aswell.

I think you really have to start with the blade and ask what handle you want, instead of starting with the handle and ask what blade you want. The Para is a short Milli. Short in terms of bladelength. So you are already committed to a certain bladelength. The question is, how much of a full hand grip do you want to sacrifice by shortening the handle. Of course you could change the general shape of the handle, but it wouldn't be a Paramilli anymore.
 
Artfully Martial - Bravo sir, well said. I too love the Para for those reasons. Nice big handle I can get my whole hand around and lever on when necessary with a really versatile blade size and profile.
 
HoB said:
There is something like a critical size and that depends on the handle shape. The handle of the Para is a bit small for me, while the handle of the Caly Jr. is perfect, even though in physical size the handle of the Caly. Jr. is smaller.

But once a critical handle length is reached, increasing in size obviously doesn't make much sense. So the issue is hardly with knives that require already a large handle because of their enormous bladelength, such as a Cuda Maxx. But if I am limited to a certain bladelength (for what ever reasons), I don't necessarily want a short handle aswell.

I think you really have to start with the blade and ask what handle you want, instead of starting with the handle and ask what blade you want. The Para is a short Milli. Short in terms of bladelength. So you are already committed to a certain bladelength. The question is, how much of a full hand grip do you want to sacrifice by shortening the handle. Of course you could change the general shape of the handle, but it wouldn't be a Paramilli anymore.
Click to expand...

Well, my way of thinking is that when I want a 3" or less blade, I want a small knife overall. So a small blade = small oal even with fixed blades, blade dictating handle in a way.

IMO, a full sized handle isn't as easy to manipulate in many positions as a smaller one. Plus ergos come into play, as increasing handle size is usually done to optimize the feel of a certain grip. I like slightly smaller, symmetric/neutral handles that I can hold in any position equally well. Things like choils and swells really seem unnecessary and intrusive to me (but I'm not saying they're a bad thing) They feel great in one grip, then I change the grip and wish they weren't there.
 
Hi Planterz, thanx for the kind words. The handle on the new Delica 4 is 3/8" longer than the current model for that exact reason. Of course that makes it worse of a blade to handle ratio for those that find ratio important.

I guess hand size does play an imprtant role.

Also thanx for the civil discussion on such a controversial subject. ;)

sal
 
For me it depends what the knife is for. In the UK max blade length for EDC without good reason 3" so I want a knife of that length with a handle that fits my hand. I have fairly large hands so for EDC I need a knife that fits me well and is comfortable to use. So that means a fairly large handle. I've found that the Spyderco UKPK fits me well. Closed the blade fills the handle, open the 50/50 choil adds to the handle length. I don't think it looks out of proportion though.

If you want to carry a shorter blade or need to for legal reasons what is the problem with having a large enough handle for safe and comfortable grip? Looks are good for safequeens but if you want a user go for one with the handle thats the right size for your hand reguardless of the ratio of blade to handle.
 
Yet one more justification for preferring compact handles. I carry my EDC about 16 hours a day. I probably average 16 minutes a week of serious use. So I carry the thing about 420x the amount of time that I use it. Compactness is not all about length. It also relates to thickness, blockiness, curvature and taper. I not only want the handle to fit my hand, I want it to fit my pocket.

I guess that some of my attitude comes from years of surreptitiously carrying an illegal switchblade (a long time ago in a jurisdiction far, far, away). If the thing prints conspicously in your pocket you lose it, get kicked out of school, get arrested, or all three at the same time. I pick my knives and my knife carry to be invisible.
 
Spyderco used to have a great handle to blade ratio on all their models, one of the best. They still do on some of their models. However, with the comapany's current love affair with "martial bladecraft" some of their current designs have larger handles for better "purchase" in "martial bladecraft." SPyderco has specifically stated they make small blades for the new "sheeple" society, but with big handles for self defense and "tough usage." The LilTemperance is another good example. It's a conscious decision by Spyderco that has not been expressed by any other manufacturer that I know of. If you like it...buy their products. If you don't there are plenty of alternatives.

Personally I think the concept is flawed. Big handles may be needed if you use your knife as a weapon, but I've got plenty of knives with 2-3.5" blades and handles that are small and fit the blade yet are quite useable, even for self defense (e.g. the Harpy and Delica). Maybe not for stabbing but for everything else you'd do with a small blade. I want my handles to have as much steel in them as possible. Pocket space is valuable, if I am carrying a 2" blade, I don't want a 4" handle. I won't buy the new big handled spydercos, even though some of the blade designs are interesting.
 
I'm waiting for the Kris and Szabofly (though I don't know if those qalify as 'tractors' :D) and may order a D'Allara 2 soon. Plus I'd like to see what the pikal/pickle looks like. True most of the in-house designs don't have a b-h ratio I want, but there are still some Spydies I like.

I had 2 guntings and an escalator, and I just didn't like the compromise. I understand that Bram Frank designed it for use by anyone, so blade length and jurisdiction had to be considered. But that's not a concern for me, and I don't think I'll have to worry about blade length on a deployment-and it's never been an issue in civilian life (again, over a decade of clipping folders in pocket). Concealability is something I do think about though, especially if I'm just backing up an M9 (though I've still got too much training time left to think about that now)

BTW, what's my hand size comparatively, anyway? From tip of thumb to tip of pinky, it spans 9", tip of middle finger to first crease at the wrist is 8", and my palm is 3 1/2" wide at the knuckles, 3 3/4" at base of my thumb.
 
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