Blade Hardness: Where do you stand?

On orders, I usually custom heat treat my blades to customers preferences,... within reason. If they don't have a preference then, 58 is a good call in my opinion.

I see what you are saying Rick and it makes sense to me. However, I don't have a problem with a 62 on some knives. I don't think I'd go 62 on a big machete though.

I have one of Nathan's knives, like the one in the pic, and it is very durable.

I'm not sure if designing knives for "abuse" is always the best way to go,... but if you want to learn to make pry bars, you've come to the right place. :)
 
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I'm just a beginner trying to finish my first without breaking it during heat treat (that straighten during tempering process is trickier than I thought it would be) but I've been carrying a pocket knife since I was a kid and I'm not as young as I wish I was. I'm more like Nathan, I like a blade that's thin, keen and hard for maximum edge retention. I prefer carbon steels but I don't have enough experience to pick an alloy and I want to start learning about CPM154 and some of the other SS alloys. I understand what Rick is saying about bush knives, I just don't use them very often. I'm more likely to use a Kaiser blade (brush axe) than a machete. If I want to beat on something I use a hammer, pry on something I use a pry bar, etc. Choose the proper tool for the task at hand, not just whatever is handy. Knives are for cutting.
 
Anybody have a problem with O1(or, damascus with O1/L6 mix) at 61 Rockwell? The blades in question are not going to be choppers in any way, hopefully.
 
woodwrkr221 said:
If I want to beat on something I use a hammer, pry on something I use a pry bar, etc. Choose the proper tool for the task at hand, not just whatever is handy. Knives are for cutting.
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I wish I could afford to carry all the right tools for the right jobs when I'm in the bush... I have to make compromises. It would be wrong to think that I would pass over a shovel to dig into the frozen ground with my knife. Of course, knives are for cutting, first and foremost..... unless you need to process wood for a winter shelter and all you have is that knife... then it is for wood processing... or if you need to find a piece of flint to start a fire, then it's a shovel/hammer/pick.:D

Tai Goo said:
I see what you are saying Rick and it makes sense to me. However, I don't have a problem with a 62 on some knives. I don't think I'd go 62 on a big machete though.
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I agree... many of my mid-sized O1 and 1095 blades are 60-62HRC and very durable. Steel, geometry and hardness to suit the task, right?:thumbup:

Tai Goo said:
I'm not sure if designing knives for "abuse" is always the best way to go,... but if you want to learn to make pry bars, you've come to the right place. :)
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Only a few models are design with "abuse" in mind. Even then, they are cutters first. Truthfully, I designed a tool to address the more common tasks I encountered in my woods rambling and wilderness skills training.... it just so happened to look like a knife!
 
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Along the line of this discussion I'd like to mention an idea I've had for a while.
The trade off is hardness vs toughness. From what I've seen is that a lot of emphasis is on hardness. People advertise how hard a blade is.
My idea is that the emphasis lies on hardness because it can be measured on a rockwell scale. Toughness can't be measured so it isn't named that often and gets
overlooked.

I have a knife with a very hard edge. It is sharp and it stays sharp, but it does show some micro chipping on the edge.
It makes me hold back in using the knife for tasks that it probably can stand up to.
I just have the idea that if it fails the blade will snap and not bend. Having a sharp, snapped off blade flying trough the air, close to me is something that I want to avoid.
I'd rather sharpen it an extra time.
 
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Toughness can be measured with a Charpy notch test, and that information is available for many alloys in the manufacturer's data sheets, at different hardnesses. Unfortunately some folks are hesitant to rely on the manu's specs, and few if any makers have a Charpy tester of their own.
 
Since I dont have any ocasions to use my knives for any bushcraft, or other rough use I usually prefer hardness over toughness. I like my steel above 62 Rc
 
Rick Marchand said:
I wish I could afford to carry all the right tools for the right jobs when I'm in the bush... I have to make compromises. It would be wrong to think that I would pass over a shovel to dig into the frozen ground with my knife. Of course, knives are for cutting, first and foremost..... unless you need to process wood for a winter shelter and all you have is that knife... then it is for wood processing... or if you need to find a piece of flint to start a fire, then it's a shovel/hammer/pick.:D
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Good Points of course. This shows I don't spend much time in the bush. If I'm not at the office I'm in the wood shop or on a project site like Habitat for Humanity or rebuilding Katrina homes, stuff like that where I purposefully bring all the tools I could ever conceive of needing.

A good bush knife sounds like a thing of bueaty, are they similar to the combat knives our troops carry? If so I understand the need for toughness. If a maker can make a great bush knife and also make a great paring knife for the kitchen he/she would be well rounded in this craft.
 
woodwrkr221 said:
Good Points of course. This shows I don't spend much time in the bush. If I'm not at the office I'm in the wood shop or on a project site like Habitat for Humanity or rebuilding Katrina homes, stuff like that where I purposefully bring all the tools I could ever conceive of needing.
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I salute you, sir. May your tools and mind always stay sharp in the field!
 
i use nothing but 1075 and i try to get my blades between 63-65 rc (edge hardening with a cutting torch) without any tempering after. i have had good luck with this process. my buddy that does my rockwell testing used to tell me i'm getting my edges too hard. he has since changed his mind.
 
Danbo said:
Anybody have a problem with O1(or, damascus with O1/L6 mix) at 61 Rockwell? The blades in question are not going to be choppers in any way, hopefully.
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I would say that O1 and L6 are "happy" at higher HRC counts so I don't see a problem. I wonder about the tempering, though... there would be compromises between the two. I wouldn't temper below 450F. They are a 2-3 points away from eachother at any given heat.
 
I generally make what I consider to be small to medium sized fixed blades that are designed for EDC possibly SD. These knives will not be used for chopping or prying, so I prefer a hardness around 60 - 62. A very thin hollow grind combined with this hardness range makes for a great cutter with good edge retention. I'm in the process of making some choppers, and will probably drop down to 58 HRC.
 
Your hunting and camping trips are most different than the ones I went on. I would call your's survival trips as are seen on TV. I never enjoyed such trips and I don't believe many do. One of the items common on my hunting trips was a compass and a hunting Buddy. There is a need for many different types of knives designed for different uses, but the knives I described worked very well on animals. As a matter of fact that one that Nathan showed was a great example of what would be very useable. Frank
 
I would call your's survival trips as are seen on TV. I never enjoyed such trips and I don't believe many do.
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Fair enough. I would never suggest that a good cutting knife with a hard edge is less than optimal. I think my bushknives are further off the "knife" target than folks like Nathan but they suit my needs and still seem to perform rather well in public reviews and competitions. Admittedly, I often curse the training I do and swear I will never do it again. It isn't until a few weeks after that I get excited for the next trip. Some folks like romance... others are into BDSM.... the props should suit the activity.
 
Hey Rick, I like the "shovel/hammer/pick" knife idea!

Why don't you send me one so I can try it out,... dig a pit forge, chop some wood, light it up and forge out a blade with it?
 
Tai Goo said:
Hey Rick, I like the "shovel/hammer/pick" knife idea!

Why don't you send me one so I can try it out,... dig a pit forge, chop some wood, light it up and forge out a blade with it?
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I see your angle, Mr Goo..... use my knife to make a real knife, eh?.... why I oughtta....:grumpy:


Rick:p
 
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