Blade Maintenance on Good Kitchen Knives

wintermute

wintermute

Joined
Oct 18, 2007
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I just ordered a Kasumi Santoku. The blade has a VG-10 core with some damascus-looking stainless shielding. I'm brainstorming low budget ways to keep this sucker sharp. I'm guessing a typical steel is out. First, and most no-brainer option is to strop it with green compound from time to time. My second, more lame-brained idea would be to run the edge along the rim of a glass after each use to realign the edge. How does this sound to everyone?
 
I use a quality steel on my VG-10 Shun classic. From time to time I use the buffing wheel, other than that I haven't touched the edge with anything else and it's still pretty sharp.
 
wintermute said:
What do you mean by quality? I have a Henckels Four Star steel steel, but no diamond or smooth steel.
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That'll work - it won't really put an edge on it per se - more like just move the blade edge around a little but it'll straighten it out to a nice, sharp, useable edge.

I've read more than a few times that a ceramic rod will work great on VG-10 for regular maintenance but have yet to buy one.

A lot of people in the Japanese kitchen knife crowd swear by water stones but I just don't have the patience to learn a new way to sharpen knives. I have a stone and tried it once but only on a cheap knife. It didn't work out all that well :(
 
I use pot lids and plate bases for steel all the time. Actually, the Japanese never steel, they just apply the stone and resharpen. Steeling makes sense to me as long as it is done without pressure. What you have in mind is fine.
 
Knife Outlet said:
I use pot lids and plate bases for steel all the time. Actually, the Japanese never steel, they just apply the stone and resharpen. Steeling makes sense to me as long as it is done without pressure. What you have in mind is fine.
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What motion/technique do you use?
 
Wait a minute-- you can sharpen a knive on a glass or a plate? Holy cow, cool. Is it a similar motion as with a steel or rod?
 
I’ve gotten good result using grooved steels, ceramic rods and the edge of a pyrex / glass baking dish. Use as little pressure as possible, alternating strokes from on side of the blade to the other, until the blade realigns. I only steel blades with metals soft enough to roll or fold over.

Harder blades, like the ones commonly used in Japanese knives don’t bend (at least mine don’t). Steeling them is not needed and can cause chipping.
 
@srmd22: Steeling doesn't sharpen. It realigns a rolled blade. Smooth steels are said to be the best, but apparently brass and pyrex both work well too.

Now the unfinished bottom of a plate or coffee cup is like a medium ceramic stone. It actually removes metal and can sharpen. The edge of a rolled down car window is similar, but finer and can be used if you have (or want) to.

Brian.
 
I find that on harder blades, realigning the edge is less important. Probably the reason that the Japanese just go back to the stones when the edge is dull. My kitchen knives are in CPM 154 and CPM 3V both run about 60-61 HRC. When my blades start to dull, I touch them up on fine and ultra-fine Spyderco ceramic. It's quick, and brings back the tree-topping edge. A pasted strop helps too.

You should be just fine with weekly touchups.
 
srmd22 said:
Wait a minute-- you can sharpen a knive on a glass or a plate? Holy cow, cool. Is it a similar motion as with a steel or rod?
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The back of a ceramic bathroom tile with the grout grooves sanded off works as well.
 
VG-10 will respond very well to the spyderco UF ceramic, lap one side with a diamond stone to smooth it out and then you will have a 2 sided finishing stone. If done correctly you won't even need the strop.
 
knifenut

Which of your DMT's did you take to the UF rod?

I have the 4" DMTs from coarse to extra-extra fine... I wonder if taking the extra-extra fine 8000 DMT to the Spyderco UF wouldn't help them both (okay, I haven't really broken in the 8000 yet, I've had it a few months but just don't get to it... I know, I need to work on the OCD).
 
jungman said:
knifenut

Which of your DMT's did you take to the UF rod?

I have the 4" DMTs from coarse to extra-extra fine... I wonder if taking the extra-extra fine 8000 DMT to the Spyderco UF wouldn't help them both (okay, I haven't really broken in the 8000 yet, I've had it a few months but just don't get to it... I know, I need to work on the OCD).
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Mine is the UF standard benchstone and spyderco did the lapping. I would use the Fine DMT to do the lapping though as I do believe that is what most use, if it does not make it finer then I would move to the xf DMT but remember its always better to start coarse and work up. DMT's suggestion to breaking-in the XXF hone it to rub it with the XF hone under water with VERY light pressure. You can also use the UF spyderco ceramic but don't try and lap it with the XXF hone you may ruin it. Also only lap for 5 seconds at a time when rubbing two diamond hones together.

Use the XXF DMT whenever you can, the results get very good after about 2 or 3 months of use (about the average time for all the DMT hones to break-in) on par with a 8000 grit waterstone. It is also best to use the XXF hone with soapy water and a feather light touch for the best finish.

With diamond hones the lighter you press the finer the finish.
 
Knifenut,

Please help me with this one:

"VG-10 will respond very well to the spyderco UF ceramic, lap one side with a diamond stone to smooth it out and then you will have a 2 sided finishing stone. If done correctly you won't even need the strop."

I have both the Spyderco UF stone and a variety of DMT diasharps. What exact process do you recommend for lapping the UF, and how does that make each side different?

Thank you,

John
 
John Frankl said:
Knifenut,

Please help me with this one:

"VG-10 will respond very well to the spyderco UF ceramic, lap one side with a diamond stone to smooth it out and then you will have a 2 sided finishing stone. If done correctly you won't even need the strop."

I have both the Spyderco UF stone and a variety of DMT diasharps. What exact process do you recommend for lapping the UF, and how does that make each side different?

Thank you,

John
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On the surface of the UF ceramic there are groves from the milling/lapping process that spyderco puts them through, If you leave one side factory finished and lap the other side you then have a 2 sided stone. The factory finished side around 3 microns and will yield a nice mirror polish but not perfect, the lapped side if lapped to the point where you can almost no longer see, feel or have the lines appear in sharpening will be around 1 micron or less. IMHO this makes a perfect finishing stone for stainless steels and the lapped side truly removes the burr to the point that a 1 micron strop does very little to improve sharpness.

Perfect finishing stone for stainless? :confused:

I know this question will come up so I will answer it now. I have found that the type of finishing stone and type of steel will have a effect on the outcome of the polished edge. After much testing in the past few months I have come to the conclusion that the UF ceramic is best used on stainless steels with hit or miss effects on CPM steels and ZDP-189. For carbon steels including CPM and ZDP-189 Diamond stones have shown the best results with waterstones pulling a close second.
 
Phillip Dobson said:
I find that on harder blades, realigning the edge is less important. Probably the reason that the Japanese just go back to the stones when the edge is dull. My kitchen knives are in CPM 154 and CPM 3V both run about 60-61 HRC. When my blades start to dull, I touch them up on fine and ultra-fine Spyderco ceramic. It's quick, and brings back the tree-topping edge. A pasted strop helps too.

You should be just fine with weekly touchups.
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When knives are dull, they always need to be resharpened on a stone. We're talking about steeling or straightening the edge, not sharpening. I view the Spyderco sharpmaker with the fine rod as a steel, actually, more than as a sharpener. You are right, though, that steeling is less meaningful with harder steels.

How long between touchups would be a matter of the amount of time the knife is used. Pro cooks, for instance, need to sharpen every day. Casual cooks might be able to go months between sharpening.
 
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knifenut1013 said:
I know this question will come up so I will answer it now. I have found that the type of finishing stone and type of steel will have a effect on the outcome of the polished edge. After much testing in the past few months I have come to the conclusion that the UF ceramic is best used on stainless steels with hit or miss effects on CPM steels and ZDP-189. For carbon steels including CPM and ZDP-189 Diamond stones have shown the best results with waterstones pulling a close second.
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No difference between the stone and the steel in terms of the "outcome of the polished edge" as long as the grits are all the same. There is a difference in the time involved and the feel of the stone, but the results will be same when finished.

Diamond stones in their finest grits are coarser than finishing waterstones. Most kitchen knife sharpening experts who use diamond stones, use waterstones for the finishing. I'm not aware of any diamond stone that can finish like a finishing waterstone or 5000 or higher grit. Perhaps there is one somewhere but I don't know about it if there is.

I'm curious about the stainless steel comment. Most powder steels and, of course, ZDP are stainless steels. They wouldn't be different from other stainless steels in that regard. Why would the material from which the sharpener is made be meaningfully different between powder steels and ZDP and other stainless steels other than the time required?
 
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