Blade Profile Preferences & Why?

My take on the Kephart design after reading the writings of Kephart is that his design pretty much was what ticked all of Kephart's boxes. Was he truly happy with the design ? Could be based upon the fact that this design has stood the test of time as a nice overall outdoors user knife. I too have been drawn into other blade designs and actually did not even consider a Kephart design for years as in thirty years of outdoor experience due to the bland or pedestrian design, not long or wicked looking ... no that not for me give me a 10 Bowie and I was happy, or so I thought. As both a user and later a collector of all things sharp I picked up a Kephart design out of curiosity and immediately fell in love with the usability and ergonomics. I have knives for every use in the field .. long ones , pointy ones both tactical and skinner styles, Huntler clip points, nessmuck and classic seax but 8 times out of ten if I am going to do general work in the woods while hiking or camping I pick a Kephart design. Not always four inches sometimes I mix it up with a five inch like the Laser Strike or Sk-5 which are modified Kephart designs. The Kephart design works for me more than not ... I'm sold on the design as a general all around woodsman work tool. I have some interest in finding a 5 inch style knife like the PLSK2 or similar I like the design looks and want to pick up a few to give the design a try.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
xrayit said:
My take on the Kephart design after reading the writings of Kephart is that his design pretty much was what ticked all of Kephart's boxes. Was he truly happy with the design ? Could be based upon the fact that this design has stood the test of time as a nice overall outdoors user knife. I too have been drawn into other blade designs and actually did not even consider a Kephart design for years as in thirty years of outdoor experience due to the bland or pedestrian design, not long or wicked looking ... no that not for me give me a 10 Bowie and I was happy, or so I thought. As both a user and later a collector of all things sharp I picked up a Kephart design out of curiosity and immediately fell in love with the usability and ergonomics. I have knives for every use in the field .. long ones , pointy ones both tactical and skinner styles, Huntler clip points, nessmuck and classic seax but 8 times out of ten if I am going to do general work in the woods while hiking or camping I pick a Kephart design. Not always four inches sometimes I mix it up with a five inch like the Laser Strike or Sk-5 which are modified Kephart designs. The Kephart design works for me more than not ... I'm sold on the design as a general all around woodsman work tool. I have some interest in finding a 5 inch style knife like the PLSK2 or similar I like the design looks and want to pick up a few to give the design a try.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I think maybe I only wander at that because of my experiences with the knife making community and being exposed to so many other options. I have found that at different times in my life different models ticked all of my boxes as they were at the time, and may have continued to tick them if I had stayed in that region or living under those circumstances. But with new territories to explore and new things learned about knives, and different options available, I was better able to recognize the benefit of changing knives to suit new needs. Much like the Buck 102 and later the 119 I explored the Tampa Bay area and Hillsborough River areas with were huge improvements over the high carbon hunting knife I had carried here in the Tennessee hills, but had rusted like crazy with exposure to the salt water. And the clipped point was an improvement in cleaning fish over the deep belly the hunting/skinning knife as well. I also know that technology development is a game changer. Much like the improvements of steel knives and better heat treatment and quenches as compared to tools of the bronze and iron ages. With modern metallurgy, new steel types available, and all that has been learned, blades can be made now that are extremely corrosion resistant and very durable even in thinner steels than could even be done in the early years of my knife enthusiasm. I can't help but wonder what Mr. Kephart and Mr. Sears might choose today were they able to walk the floors of the International Blade Show, and choose any knife they wished.
 
Great question, Brian.

I suspect that Horace and Sears came up with expedient knives that were "good enough". They did their work adequately and those guys never really looked around at other designs. I think it's pretty hard to argue with Horace's design: ask a kid to draw a knife and you'll end up with a Kephart. They are basic, but fabulously functional. I can't speak to Andy's improved Kephart, I may need to remedy my ignorance there.

I recently got a Buck Pathfinder (105) in 5160 steel. I haven't used it much as I'm still in a prolonged Nessmuk trial. But I'm impressed overall. Pointy the way you like, but has enough belly to satisfy me. I like the look of the slender blade, but haven't used it enough to say. Apparently Buck designed this knife back in the late 1940's, probably as a hunting knife. It seems best suited to that task, but is a bit long at 5". Yet it seems to be a consistent seller for Buck, so the design has had staying power that begins to rival Kephart's knife design.

If you are familiar with the Pathfinder, how would you compare it's functionality with the Fiddleback Kephart? With no experience using either, I would be inclined to take the Kephart camping, whereas, for an elk hunt, the Pathfinder grabs my intuition. But what about for a multi-day fishing trip?

And Brian, you mentioned the Pilot's Survival Knife. I carried one of those for years, used 'em in survival school, and went camping with one several times. You are right, the edge takes some work, but once there, it's an excellent knife. Surprisingly so. That is an example of a knife with lots of belly, though. How did that design disappoint you? (Me, I thought there was too much clip and came to favor a drop point, but I'm now more open minded. Returning to the Buck 110 has rekindled my joy in clip points. I also started to become frustrated with large guards and the limitations they impose.)
 
Last edited:
Pictures says it well, the three on the right are favorites. The Bush Hermit is a new arrival and was not in the pic. Odd how different each of the handles are but all are very comfortable.
L-R 3/32"; 1/8" TT & 5/32" TT
Bill
 
Nice collection.

Looks like you are consistent in choosing a drop point but vary the length. (The mid-sized blade with bluish scale might better be called a 'spear-point' I suppose.) Any particular reason for sticking with the drop point?
 
Rotte said:
Nice collection.

Looks like you are consistent in choosing a drop point but vary the length. (The mid-sized blade with bluish scale might better be called a 'spear-point' I suppose.) Any particular reason for sticking with the drop point?
Click to expand...

Not nit picking just clarifying. Actually it, an Asp model, and the Arete, (second from the left if left is up at the top :) ) are what I think most consider spear points. May just be hard to tell at that angle.
 
Rotte said:
Great question, Brian.

I suspect that Horace and Sears came up with expedient knives that were "good enough". They did their work adequately and those guys never really looked around at other designs. I think it's pretty hard to argue with Horace's design: ask a kid to draw a knife and you'll end up with a Kephart. They are basic, but fabulously functional. I can't speak to Andy's improved Kephart, I may need to remedy my ignorance there.

I recently got a Buck Pathfinder (105) in 5160 steel. I haven't used it much as I'm still in a prolonged Nessmuk trial. But I'm impressed overall. Pointy the way you like, but has enough belly to satisfy me. I like the look of the slender blade, but haven't used it enough to say. Apparently Buck designed this knife back in the late 1940's, probably as a hunting knife. It seems best suited to that task, but is a bit long at 5". Yet it seems to be a consistent seller for Buck, so the design has had staying power that begins to rival Kephart's knife design.

If you are familiar with the Pathfinder, how would you compare it's functionality with the Fiddleback Kephart? With no experience using either, I would be inclined to take the Kephart camping, whereas, for an elk hunt, the Pathfinder grabs my intuition. But what about for a multi-day fishing trip?

And Brian, you mentioned the Pilot's Survival Knife. I carried one of those for years, used 'em in survival school, and went camping with one several times. You are right, the edge takes some work, but once there, it's an excellent knife. Surprisingly so. That is an example of a knife with lots of belly, though. How did that design disappoint you? (Me, I thought there was too much clip and came to favor a drop point, but I'm now more open minded. Returning to the Buck 110 has rekindled my joy in clip points. I also started to become frustrated with large guards and the limitations they impose.)
Click to expand...


As for the 105, it is very different from Andy's Kephart in a lot of ways, and handles completely differently. The up-swept trailing clip orients the tip in a completely different way. Whenever I worked with the tip of the 105 I held it in an overhand reverse pinch grip to have better control of the tip. For example when gutting fish I would have the fish's head held with my left hand running diagonally from bottom left to upper right. I would poke the tip in and cut away from my body. So far with the Kephart I switch the head and tail aroud, hold the knife in a standard pinch grip, poke the knife in, and cut in the opposite direction.

As for the pilot knife, the loosening leather and rattling guard got on my nerves. The fine tip, it was an older Camillus, snapped off and had to be reshaped, and I wasn't very happy with the Belt loop. It became replaced by an old SOG S1 Bowie that I liked better even though the tip was likely just as fragile. The leather handle never loosened and I loved the sheath other than I wished it was brown. I never fully recovered from my trauma bond with the pilot knife. I have a small collection of them including one of the 6 inch blade models. But that has been replaced in my rotation of field knives by an interpretation of the Randall #5 made by Ed Martin, but in CPM S35VN steel. I still have a weakness for stacked leather in certain moods. I like the absence of the upper guard and am totally ok with the lower one.
 
Kephart, Bear Cub style for me. However I'm really starting to like some of the modified Tanto folders out there.
 
I gravitate towards spear points and drop points that verge on spear points- different makers may lean a bit more this way or that blurring the lines.

The ASP is a major favorite in feel and function. The Duke is a wonderful "big" knife.

To be clear, I do not chop with my knives. I am an axe fanatic- either a machete or axe for chopping.

I DO baton my knives and have every confidence in the above profiles and thicknesses.

Bill
 
I'm gonna need a Duke.....

lmalterna said:
I gravitate towards spear points and drop points that verge on spear points- different makers may lean a bit more this way or that blurring the lines.
Click to expand...

But here's the question I keep flogging everybody with: Why?

Why does the Drop/Spear point attract you? Is there a functional reason, or is it an aesthetic preference? Or just what you are used to?

Why not an upswept or a Wharncliffe? Why not a Sheep's foot or reverse tanto?
 
Last edited:
I will play :)
I have an area near the hand that is straight blade for carving, power cuts and scraping.
I have some belly for sweeping slice.
I have a relatively narrow yet strong tip for fine notching or working around bone.
Tip is close to center line for balanced drilling or penetration.

For how I use a knife, these points make the blade more versatile for me.

Bill
 
Yeah. For me, I think the Drop point proves to be a 'Jack-of-all-trades' knife. Maybe it doesn't have the belly of a flat backed knife, maybe it isn't as pointy as a spear point or clip point, but it seems to strike a nice compromise. I think most hunters seem to favor a drop point because it can be used to gut and dress game. Older skinners had more emphasis on belly, even ending up with up-swept tips. Up-swept knives are great at boning out meat with less risk of "pass pointing".

The Nessmuk is interesting in that it essentially converts a Puuko or straight backed knife into a drop point, not by rounding the point down, but adding a hump to the spine. In this way the benefits of the belly of the straight top knife get the advantage of the drop point. Very clever Mr Sears. And I find that this design is working for me in most of the tasks I do.

While I like the idea of being able to carve a spoon or a trap, I don't really 'need' to do that. More often I'm cutting up stuff for the stew pot or carving sticks for brats...or s'mores. I'll go for rabbit or deer, maybe an elk this year (got my tag), so a knife that can dress out a big animal is a necessity. A spear point is less ideal, but certainly usable.

I shy away from sheepsfoot or Wharncliffe blades in the outdoors, although I'm not sure why. They provide great tip control and are great carvers. Not for bowls or spoons, but for grilling sticks or tent pegs, yes. I carry a small sheepsfoot knife quite often in town, the Bo Legged Joe could be considered a highly stylized form of sheepsfoot, a fantastic utility knife. And any knife with an edge can open a package or cut some cord. That can be done with a sharpened pry bar. But if I had to open a lot of packaging, I'd favor a sheepsfoot more, huge power in that point, sitting below the center axis of the knife.
 
Rotte said:
I'm gonna need a Duke.....



But here's the question I keep flogging everybody with: Why?

Why does the Drop/Spear point attract you? Is there a functional reason, or is it an aesthetic preference? Or just what you are used to?

Why not an upswept or a Wharncliffe? Why not a Sheep's foot or reverse tanto?
Click to expand...

I like some upswept tips these days, for some applications. I would love to have one of Ethan Beckers BK-15s in stainless as a hunting / camp food prep knife knife just because I watched the tweener line develop from concept, to protos, to pre-production, to production. I carried an Old Timer 165 Woodsman for a while, but then I switched to the Golden Spike I still have for the pointier tip... But I do not like up swept as a general utility knife due to the belly and location of the tip, I'd rather have a Wharncliffe type blade for that. That's why I suggested Andy make the Bushraptor some years back. I still like that model and wouldn't mind a longer, like a KEB sized version with a more shallow radius and pointier tip in bushcraft. The below center tip of the Kephart is one of the things I like most about it. The shallow belly and narrow sharp point just work out better for thumb pushes on the spine for detailed work with the edge at the tip, and I can't do that with a deep bellied knife.

Aesthetically I am more drawn to clip points, and I like them best in a defensive role as well. I have several of them, and I plan to add one of Andy's new Protagonists to that group as soon as I can afford it. They just aren't the best suited to my style of bushcraft type uses. I can adapt them to it with no problem after years of practice...but it's more work and less fun than with a narrow pointy spear tip.
 
Rotte said:
But here's the question I keep flogging everybody with: Why?

Why does the Drop/Spear point attract you? Is there a functional reason, or is it an aesthetic preference? Or just what you are used to?

Why not an upswept or a Wharncliffe? Why not a Sheep's foot or reverse tanto?
Click to expand...

Personally, I care little for aesthetics. I have about 2 dozen fixed blades, and almost every single one of them has a generic Kydex or leather sheath and plain micarta or G10 handle scales. No exotic woods, no exquisite leather work. For me it's more about function.

I use a knife to carve, process wood and clean small game. For those tasks the drop point or Kephart profile seem to work the best. The only other cutting implement I take is a folding Silky Saw, and historically that combo has proven to do what I need. YMMV. All of my dirt time is in the NE woodlands though. If I were to go someplace else the tools I use might differ, but for where I am and what I do a drop point or Kephart satisfy my needs.
 
theJman said:
Personally, I care little for aesthetics. I have about 2 dozen fixed blades, and almost every single one of them has a generic Kydex or leather sheath and plain micarta or G10 handle scales. No exotic woods, no exquisite leather work. For me it's more about function.

I use a knife to carve, process wood and clean small game. For those tasks the drop point or Kephart profile seem to work the best. The only other cutting implement I take is a folding Silky Saw, and historically that combo has proven to do what I need. YMMV. All of my dirt time is in the NE woodlands though. If I were to go someplace else the tools I use might differ, but for where I am and what I do a drop point or Kephart satisfy my needs.
Click to expand...

Tool preference is very much region specific in many ways. I wouldn't need an axe in south Florida in the winter, I'd want a machete. It the far north in the winter I would definitely need an axe more than a machete. Knives are the same in a way. Where we are and the materials we work with determine a lot about what we like.
 
You haven't convinced me of the virtues of a pointy spear tip. I'm counting on you to develop that argument further. I share your aesthetic sense for clips points. There is a classic quality to them that I find irresistible...but I'm not sure the clip adds a lot of function. I am a huge fan of the Buck 110. I've probably got 5 of them...maybe 6. It is a useful knife and, for me, has stood the test of time. However, I did break the tip of one (when I was younger and more foolish), and the clip always looks a bit...artificial to me. Fill that curved clip in with a straight clip or drop point and I think it's a better knife overall. But I have 5...or 6. I have a few other folders that are better designs (Spydie PM2, Insingo, Osborne Benchmade, etc...), but I carry the Buck 110 more often, just because I like the aesthetics and feel. And it's good enough for most pocket knife jobs.

When you say that you don't like the "location of the tip" on a more upswept tip, do you mean that you like the tip to be more in-line with the axis of the knife or lower than the axis of the knife? And why? (Always with the why... :rolleyes:)

Here are two favorites, they could hardly be more different without being a Stiletto and an Ulu.



The top knife is one made by ML knives (to my design). The bottom is one of my favorite Fiddlebacks, now likely discontinued. The ML knife is excellent for common, everyday tasks such as opening packages, cutting tape/string. The point gives great control. It is an excellent whittler and is the best apple peeler I've got. Sort of a 'city knife'. I think it could work well as a self-defense knife, like a karambit, in a reverse grip. That's not an area of expertise for me, but I've got a hunch it could trap, slice, and stab fairly well. When I asked Matt to make it, I mostly wanted a knife with great tip control.

The Hunter (I think that's what it was called?) is just an outstanding all around knife. The heel of the edge has lots of power for straight cuts, huge belly for slicing/skinning/carving, and the point is pointy. I'm not sure if it was intentional, but there seems to be a hint of Nessmuk in this one too. That big belly is not for amateurs. It takes some practice and attention to get good control with this kinda curvature. But. I'll argue, the versatility is worth it.
 
Rotte said:
You haven't convinced me of the virtues of a pointy spear tip. I'm counting on you to develop that argument further. I share your aesthetic sense for clips points. There is a classic quality to them that I find irresistible...but I'm not sure the clip adds a lot of function. I am a huge fan of the Buck 110. I've probably got 5 of them...maybe 6. It is a useful knife and, for me, has stood the test of time. However, I did break the tip of one (when I was younger and more foolish), and the clip always looks a bit...artificial to me. Fill that curved clip in with a straight clip or drop point and I think it's a better knife overall. But I have 5...or 6. I have a few other folders that are better designs (Spydie PM2, Insingo, Osborne Benchmade, etc...), but I carry the Buck 110 more often, just because I like the aesthetics and feel. And it's good enough for most pocket knife jobs.

When you say that you don't like the "location of the tip" on a more upswept tip, do you mean that you like the tip to be more in-line with the axis of the knife or lower than the axis of the knife? And why? (Always with the why... :rolleyes:)

Here are two favorites, they could hardly be more different without being a Stiletto and an Ulu.



The top knife is one made by ML knives (to my design). The bottom is one of my favorite Fiddlebacks, now likely discontinued. The ML knife is excellent for common, everyday tasks such as opening packages, cutting tape/string. The point gives great control. It is an excellent whittler and is the best apple peeler I've got. Sort of a 'city knife'. I think it could work well as a self-defense knife, like a karambit, in a reverse grip. That's not an area of expertise for me, but I've got a hunch it could trap, slice, and stab fairly well. When I asked Matt to make it, I mostly wanted a knife with great tip control.

The Hunter (I think that's what it was called?) is just an outstanding all around knife. The heel of the edge has lots of power for straight cuts, huge belly for slicing/skinning/carving, and the point is pointy. I'm not sure if it was intentional, but there seems to be a hint of Nessmuk in this one too. That big belly is not for amateurs. It takes some practice and attention to get good control with this kinda curvature. But. I'll argue, the versatility is worth it.
Click to expand...

Thats a Kismets Practical Hunter aka KPH
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top