Blade Replacement

[nccole]

As an example, I'd love to be able to get a new blade for my Schempp Tuff if it ever broke, even if I had to pay for a new Ti side due to a new released revision. I'd rather pay $75 for a new Ti side and blade than $200 for a whole new knife.

I assuming you are making numbers up for your example. You do realize though that you took the two most expensive parts of the knife and a bunch of specialized labor and assumed it could be done for $75 on a $230 knife? Not realistic at all imo.

 

[seedubs1]

I assuming you are making numbers up for your example. You do realize though that you took the two most expensive parts of the knife and a bunch of specialized labor and assumed it could be done for $75 on a $230 knife? Not realistic at all imo.

I'm assuming Spyderco sells the entire knife to the larger distributors for about 2/3 what the knife sells for to the customer.

My last Tuff, I bought for $195 shipped. So that means spyderco sold it for a max of $130.

Factoring in that spyderco makes money on that knife and isn't just covering cost, I'd say they produce the entire knife for $100 or less.

Figuring the blade and Ti handle make up 75% of the cost of producing the knife, that left me with $75 for the replacement parts.

Yes, guesstimated.....but I'm betting it's actually on the conservative side of things (meaning the blade and frame actually cost less). If you've got real numbers, I'd love to see them, but I didn't just make up a random number. I work in engineering, I work with tool steels, and I know what these types of things cost (or what they should cost). $75 should be generous...

 

[nccole]

I'm assuming Spyderco sells the entire knife to the larger distributors for about 2/3 what the knife sells for to the customer.

My last Tuff, I bought for $195 shipped. So that means spyderco sold it for a max of $130.

Factoring in that spyderco makes money on that knife and isn't just covering cost, I'd say they produce the entire knife for $100 or less.

Figuring the blade and Ti handle make up 75% of the cost of producing the knife, that left me with $75 for the replacement parts.

Yes, guesstimated.....but I'm betting it's actually on the conservative side of things (meaning the blade and frame actually cost less). If you've got real numbers, I'd love to see them, but I didn't just make up a random number. I work in engineering, I work with tool steels, and I know what these types of things cost (or what they should cost). $75 should be generous...

Makes sense on the parts breakdown alone, but are you suggesting that they should make no money on offering replacement blades and parts? They are still in business, and need to make their margin. You still have to factor in labor as well. I too work in engineering (getting ready to start a new job at Caterpillar on Monday actually), but in my old job working with new safety valves and repairing them (VR) I always marked up parts 30% and labor/overhead is the more expensive component. Spyderco cannot keep up with making knives let alone diverting resources to blade replacement work. Why would they spend the time making no money on replacing blades?

I personally never see needing to replace a blade, but do understand how some do. I will never be prying with my knife, and will never wear one out, I have too many and will never have enough work to do that.

Oh, and you got a steal on a Tuff for $195. The Tuff is also a good example because it did have some changes done due to lockup issues.

Curious, what would be the most you would pay to make a broken bladed Tuff good again? And what would you do about a $65 Delica?

 

[singularity35]

I'm assuming Spyderco sells the entire knife to the larger distributors for about 2/3 what the knife sells for to the customer.

My last Tuff, I bought for $195 shipped. So that means spyderco sold it for a max of $130.

Factoring in that spyderco makes money on that knife and isn't just covering cost, I'd say they produce the entire knife for $100 or less.

Figuring the blade and Ti handle make up 75% of the cost of producing the knife, that left me with $75 for the replacement parts.

Yes, guesstimated.....but I'm betting it's actually on the conservative side of things (meaning the blade and frame actually cost less). If you've got real numbers, I'd love to see them, but I didn't just make up a random number. I work in engineering, I work with tool steels, and I know what these types of things cost (or what they should cost). $75 should be generous...

I have a great idea, why not found your own knife company?

 

[seedubs1]

Makes sense on the parts breakdown alone, but are you suggesting that they should make no money on offering replacement blades and parts? They are still in business, and need to make their margin. You still have to factor in labor as well. I too work in engineering (getting ready to start a new job at Caterpillar on Monday actually), but in my old job working with new safety valves and repairing them (VR) I always marked up parts 30% and labor/overhead is the more expensive component. Spyderco cannot keep up with making knives let alone diverting resources to blade replacement work. Why would they spend the time making no money on replacing blades?

I personally never see needing to replace a blade, but do understand how some do. I will never be prying with my knife, and will never wear one out, I have too many and will never have enough work to do that.

Oh, and you got a steal on a Tuff for $195. The Tuff is also a good example because it did have some changes done due to lockup issues.

Curious, what would be the most you would pay to make a broken bladed Tuff good again? And what would you do about a $65 Delica?

Congrats on your new job! We're officially competitors

I agree about them possibly not making much by doing blade (and some other parts) replacements. But heck, even if they do that part of the business model to where they break even, they'll create a couple of jobs, make customers very happy, and not lose any money.

As for how much I'd personally pay.....it depends. If I broke my tuff, I'd replace it with another tuff right now. So I'd pay up to 75% of the new cost or so. They'd have to do the cost analysis on their knives, though. Some knives would be a lot cheaper than the tuff since they wouldn't have to potentially replace a titanium slab.

Also, they'd gain some business from me. Because right now, if I'm going to really beat on a knife, I'm getting something from KAI because of their blade replacement policy. If I snap it prying, I can buy a new one for $15 from kershaw of $30 from ZT. That's awesome in my book.

I have a great idea, why not found your own knife company?

My current job pays me enough that I don't consider leaving. And if I did, I wouldn't want to start a knife company. Markets already fairly saturated and difficult to enter for a new company.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Rather than attacking the idea (Nccole, Singularity, sorry, I usually agree with most of your opinions, but not this time), let Sal reads and decides.

Having said that, on the flip side, it's true not all company offer the kind of end user experience as Spyderco, and it is suported by their business model. We're lucky to have a knife company whose owner is also an Afi, that willing to go extra for the other Afis (us) with sprint runs, mule project, etc.

As stated correctly before, ultimately it's Spyderco decision what's the best to both sides, considering overall picture of the business model, size, etc. I don't think attacking the idea (selling for no profit, etc). is beneficial. CQI, cost (guessed), etc. has been tabled down. An idea that Spyderco has option to replace with some charges is not bad idea, IMHO.

From environmental perspective, it's better to replace the blade & lock rather than the whole knife, just to bring another angle to it.

Let us share more pros and cons on what is possible. Hopefully it contributes to Spyderco in making their decision, and peace

Edit to add: Seedub1, thank you for the ideas sharing and healthy response. I might just shut up :foot:

 

[singularity35]

My current job pays me enough that I don't consider leaving. And if I did, I wouldn't want to start a knife company. Markets already fairly saturated and difficult to enter for a new company.

Well, since you're making noises like an expert and an insider....I guess it would be a breeze for you to found and run a successful knife manufacturing company.

 

[Handwrecker]

If you were to buy a blade directly from Spyderco, wouldn't it make more sense to use their MSRP as opposed to the dealer price? Spyderco sells the Tuff for $420 (hehe) instead of $195.

I can understand why people would want the safety net of being able to replace a blade, but I'm not for it. I'd much rather see them focus their energy on new and better designs. In my experience, if you snapped the tip off of your knife, you were prying. If by some rare chance it was a manufacturing defect, you get an entirely new knife. Just seems like the replacement blade service would cause Spyderco to have to waste time and money into people using their knives to pry.

As stated before, this is a small company. They don't have the space or people to make all of their designs here in the US. Keeping a surplus of Taiwan manufactured blades to help out snapped tips seems like it would divert even more time and money than you're giving it credit for.

 

[nccole]

Rather than attacking the idea (Nccole, Singularity, sorry, I usually agree with most of your opinions, but not this time), let Sal reads and decides.

No attacks from me. I find the business side very interesting and am just enjoying discussing it with like minded people (seedubs1) and hearing different opinions. That doesn't mean we agree on the feasibility, but it is interesting none the less. It doesn't have to get nasty just because people disagree. The first time seedubs chimed in, it sounded a little harsh and critical of Spyderco and Sal, but that is his opinion. He has been civil to members, and Sal does not need bodyguards. He will chime in if he wants. I don't think he took it personally or thought I was getting nasty with him and I didn't read him getting nasty with me. I think ultimately it boils down to size of company and the ratio of size of company to number of unique models. Spyderco is the smallest of the three most known "tactical" knife makers, but might just have the most variety. KAI just started this program and they are huge. Who knows how this will turn out for them. Maybe Spyderco will do it in the future, maybe not. Either way, it really won't personally impact my buying habits. I doubt I will ever need the service.

 

[seedubs1]

Regarding me coming off as harsh, sorry if it came off that way. Speaking tone is tough for me in written format, and I normally just type out the bullet points from what I'm thinking. I'm an engineer, not an english major

Bottom line, even if Spyderco doesn't ever offer this service, I'll continue to buy their products because they're great products. Would I like to see blade replacement as a service offered? Heck yeah, it'd put them over the top, and I'd likely not buy from any other manufacturers. I was just trying to put some soft numbers and reasons behind it. And in the end, it's Sal's business, and he can do what he wants. It's obviously been successful so far.

Well, since you're making noises like an expert and an insider....I guess it would be a breeze for you to found and run a successful knife manufacturing company.

Technically, yes. I could. I've got a Mechanical Engineering degree from the University of Wisconsin, and my wife has a degree in Business from IU's highly regarded Kelly School of Business. But like I said, I would have zero interest in that. Most of what I do is geared towards internal combustion engines. Also, there's already saturation in the knife market, and just no real business case for me getting into it.

And regarding making noises...this is a forum, is it not? It's where you're supposed to discuss things. Why would you not discuss the possibilities? I'm sure you'd love to see Spyderco offer these services. Why not discuss it instead of just saying "well, they don't do it, and that's that." It's a huge bonus that the owner himself looks at this forum. If it's discussed enough, enough people show interest, and there's a strong case behind it, maybe he'd consider it.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Nccole,

Aye, neither Sal nor seedubs1 need bodyguard.

Just want to continue hearing the sharing of insights

 

[nccole]

Technically, yes. I could. I've got a Mechanical Engineering degree from the University of Wisconsin, and my wife has a degree in Business from IU's highly regarded Kelly School of Business. But like I said, I would have zero interest in that. Most of what I do is geared towards internal combustion engines. Also, there's already saturation in the knife market, and just no real business case for me getting into it.

Well, add two more things we are "competitors" to the list! I have an MET from Purdue (IUPUI actually, so my dislike of IU is not too strong) Kelly is a hell of a school and very hard to get into let alone finish. Much respect to people getting a business degree from there. Oh, and an ME is not too shabby either I go back and forth whether or not I should have gotten an ME or an MET. I am a hands on kind of guy, and like working in a situation where I can get my hands dirty as well as a desk job. I have thought about going back and getting the ME once my wife starts working. I liked the idea of the MET, but the ME is better suited to get a wider range of jobs.

 

[singularity35]

Yes, well talk is cheap.

Regarding me coming off as harsh, sorry if it came off that way. Speaking tone is tough for me in written format, and I normally just type out the bullet points from what I'm thinking. I'm an engineer, not an english major

Bottom line, even if Spyderco doesn't ever offer this service, I'll continue to buy their products because they're great products. Would I like to see blade replacement as a service offered? Heck yeah, it'd put them over the top, and I'd likely not buy from any other manufacturers. I was just trying to put some soft numbers and reasons behind it. And in the end, it's Sal's business, and he can do what he wants. It's obviously been successful so far.



Technically, yes. I could. I've got a Mechanical Engineering degree from the University of Wisconsin, and my wife has a degree in Business from IU's highly regarded Kelly School of Business. But like I said, I would have zero interest in that. Most of what I do is geared towards internal combustion engines. Also, there's already saturation in the knife market, and just no real business case for me getting into it.

And regarding making noises...this is a forum, is it not? It's where you're supposed to discuss things. Why would you not discuss the possibilities? I'm sure you'd love to see Spyderco offer these services. Why not discuss it instead of just saying "well, they don't do it, and that's that." It's a huge bonus that the owner himself looks at this forum. If it's discussed enough, enough people show interest, and there's a strong case behind it, maybe he'd consider it.

 

[seedubs1]

Well, add two more things we are "competitors" to the list! I have an MET from Purdue (IUPUI actually, so my dislike of IU is not too strong) Kelly is a hell of a school and very hard to get into let alone finish. Much respect to people getting a business degree from there. Oh, and an ME is not too shabby either I go back and forth whether or not I should have gotten an ME or an MET. I am a hands on kind of guy, and like working in a situation where I can get my hands dirty as well as a desk job. I have thought about going back and getting the ME once my wife starts working. I liked the idea of the MET, but the ME is better suited to get a wider range of jobs.

Sounds like what you want to get into is development engineering. That's what I do. I get a request for a product, go through ESW, develop an iDFMEA, DVP, etc... and then procede to test and develop the product. It's an awesome job. I basically get paid to break things and then figure out how to keep them from failing.

The reason I went ME is that it allows you in the majority of the engineering doors, and I wasn't sure where I wanted to be when I enrolled at 18 years old (that was quite a few years back now...). MET should get you into the majority of jobs that it sounds like you want, though. I'd sit on the degree you've got for a while before dumping the money into another degree. When I first started working out of college, I thought the same thing, and was looking at getting my teaching certificate to teach math and physics since I wasn't sure about what I was doing. It took me some time to figure out that I really liked my job, and I'm glad I decided to give it a couple years before deciding whether or not to pursue another avenue. Good luck in your decision.

 

[Redmasta]

My point was that it is Spyderco's choice. It's not because they offer too much and they "can't." Other companies offer a lot of models, do sprint runs, and seem to do just fine offering replacement blades. So Spyderco having a lot of models and sprint runs is no justification for not offering replacement blades. Bottom line is that Spyderco chooses not to.

I agree completely with this statement. They should at least have the ability to replace the blades on their higher end models or at minimum the models made in USA.

 

[shunsui]

And regarding making noises...this is a forum, is it not? It's where you're supposed to discuss things. Why would you not discuss the possibilities? I'm sure you'd love to see Spyderco offer these services. Why not discuss it instead of just saying "well, they don't do it, and that's that." It's a huge bonus that the owner himself looks at this forum. If it's discussed enough, enough people show interest, and there's a strong case behind it, maybe he'd consider it.

One of the great features of the forum is the SEARCH function. A little research on your topic of interest will go a long way in increasing this forum's signal to noise ratio.

 

[singularity35]

One of the great features of the forum is the SEARCH function. A little research on your topic of interest will go a long way in increasing this forum's signal to noise ratio.

Radio is a bad analogy. Computers would be a better one. Like that garbage in, garbage out thingy.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Interesting thread. I appreicate the input and the civility.

I think the major reason we don't do blade replacements is because the CQI we do, means that parts are constantly changing, even if only small increments. As a product development guy myself, I understand the "art" and enjoy it as well. It's much easier to do blade replacements if new models are limited and changes are limited. To determine the actual part and either make or store that particular part would be far too expensive and more involvement than the need requires. If it's our fault, we'll just replace the knife. If it's your fault, we'll try to fix it. I applaud those companies that offer the service, it's a hard thing to do. At this time, we have far too many models and far too many improvements and refinemenbts to consider the department.

sal

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Sal,

Thank you for sharing (again) Spyderco's standpoint on the issue.

I'm guessing that the blade+lock replacement as suggested might be possible for some cases (models) but sometimes the change involved more aspects so it is as good as replacing the knife altogether.

Not being able to have a consistent situation / solution definitely is not good for policy making and for Spyderco, even though it might not be compounded by staffing training/knowledge (am guessing again: low turnover). A non consistent policy is no good for both company and customers.
(With some large companies such as where I work, this staff turn over is an issue on its own).

I guess the answer is still 'no'

It might be one of the factor that people buying pre-needed replacement (backups) for those they like. Living far from US with very expensive local prices (and degrading exchange rate), I am glad that I did for my Resilience lol.