Blade Shapes

[waynorth]

Meanwhile, Happy New Year to all. Here is a knife with a shackle.

All controversy aside, that's a beauty!!

 

[black mamba]

I'm not sure whether GEC referred to the secondary blade on the #86 jack as a sheepfoot or coping, but originally the downturn of the spine was so abrupt that it stuck up above the clip when closed, which bugged me. So, I reshaped it with a more graceful top line and now it doesn't protrude when closed.

ORIGINAL

RESHAPED

 

[Jack Black]

So my swayback knife is more accurately termed as a wharncliffe knife? Huh, who knew? I think I'll just avoid the confusion altogether and start calling it a corbo.

A Wharncliffe knife is closer to what Case calls a Seahorse Whittler.


I think.

Rachel is right (of course ), a Wharncliffe Knife has a particular serpentine frame, a single spring, a main blade with a straight edge and spine that slopes evenly back from the point, and a secondary Pen blade. That's a Wharncliffe Knife

Well said, Jack! Oh, and I wish I had the luxury of using the ignore function!

Thanks Gary, I really feel for you and Frank my friend

“Corbeau” is French for crow. Probably just a coincidence that a crow’s beak looks a little like a Wharncliffe blade, but somebody on the internet is bound to read this and claim that’s where the name came from…

(not my picture)

I think that probably is just a coincidence Tom, but it's a GOOD one!

I was going to say that the shape of the frame of the Wharncliffe Knife pattern reminds me of a "serpentine sleeveboard with rounded bolsters", but I like Rachel's analogy to a Case Seahorse whittler better.

I'm sure Case knew the correct name for that pattern

I am about as anal as anyone regarding these terms, but I don't mind some ignorance, I guess. Stupidity is another manner. LOL.

Well said

Now, then: the bails. Bails are on pails. Milk pails, lard buckets, etc. And, as a verb, to get water out of your boat before it sinks. On knives, from time immemorial they were called shackles, just as in larger applications, such as in sailing ship gear and construction work with steel cable. I like the sound of shackle, and I use that term because it makes me feel clever. Bale! I see that one. That is how they put up cotton, hay and straw, and, back in the day, bison hides. That end-piece on the butt of a fixed blade knife is usually called a pommel, but I get a chuckle when I see 'pummel.' I think that used to be a verb indicating a certain amount of boxing about the ears, and such. Meanwhile, Happy New Year to all. Here is a knife with a shackle.View attachment 1712982

I think you're right there my friend, Happy New Year

 

[kamagong]

Rachel is right (of course ), a Wharncliffe Knife has a particular serpentine frame, a single spring, a main blade with a straight edge and spine that slopes evenly back from the point, and a secondary Pen blade. That's a Wharncliffe Knife

Thanks for the explanation Jack. I had one, since claimed, by my daughter. Queen and Dan Burke called it a half-whittler.

 

[kamagong]

What year please??

Happy New Year, Christian!!!

Happy New Year to you my friend!

 

[redsparrow]

Warncliff Whittler with blood-wood scale's! ...what?
...ALL RIGHT COVERS!!! sorry...
...a pointy three blade folder with red-ish wood handles

 

[JW225]

Rachel is right (of course ), a Wharncliffe Knife has a particular serpentine frame, a single spring, a main blade with a straight edge and spine that slopes evenly back from the point, and a secondary Pen blade. That's a Wharncliffe Knife

A very helpful explanation — much appreciated!

From a visual standpoint, I’m struck by the similarity between the first two examples and the 38 English Whittler (even though, from a technical standpoint, the 38 doesn’t include the right Wharncliffe blade/spring components).

Edit: Ah, redsparrow , I see you beat me to it!

 

[tongueriver]

delete

 

[Will Power]

tongueriver Interesting catalogue pics there. The term Wharncliffe derives from an English aristocrat, one of the Barons Wharncliffe, later elevated to Earls of Wharncliffe c1870s. It's likely impossible to say exactly when this blade shape appeared in the c19th. Wharncliffe had a connexion with the Rogers cutlers and supposedly wanted a tough new blade shape, possibly for woodworking so it probably was thick stock (not unlike CASE's Seahorse which sports a hefty Wharncliffe) Then cutlers, Rogers and others, decided to market it as a KNIFE rather than just a blade so the pattern shape emerged which we saw in earlier pictures. Some were three blade Penknives (itself a vague term these days and open to interpretation) later branching out into Whittlers, Wharncliffe and other types.

The early pattern had a stamped master 'Wharncliffe Knife' and soon other types emerged such as the Norfolk pattern - named after Norfolk St. presumably.This has Wharncliffe master an arched frame and swell-centre, and in various sizes. The knives you show from Schrade clearly have a similar frame as the early Wharncliffe knife, but not the distinct master blade. Wharncliffe later became associated with a blade rather than a specific knife frame. The GEC 38 frame certainly bears a strong resemblance to the original Wharncliffe Knife- perhaps why Bill H named the recent release 'English Whittler' as it has a Wharncliffe master.

Anyway, it's still Wharncliffe not Worencliffe, Warnclif , Wharncliffes or other variations you can encounter. I don't care what people say in everyday speech they're still inaccurate and wrong. A lot of people know nothing of conditionals and say, absurdly, If I was you instead of I were you. Was is past , so you'd have to be somebody in another life Still doesn't make it right even if some people like to say it. It's akin to being too lazy to spell a person's name correctly just cos it comes off me tongue like that.

 

[r8shell]

Call it whatever you like, but don't use an apostrophe to make it plural.

 

[afishhunter]

Much worse is "half-whit . . . . .ler"

Or a half fast whittler. S/he not a fast whistler, nor a slow one.
Back in the mid 70's when I worked with my step grandfather as a fabrication welder, he said I wasn't fast, and I wasn't slow. I was half fast.

(None of my welds broke, so I wasn't a half (biblical term for donkey) welder.

 

[afishhunter]

I'm pretty sure the term EDC wasn't a big term before YouTube.

"EDC" wasn't a big term before the Internet and blade forums.
Starting 1st or second grade, all the boys and most of the girls had a pocket knife on them when they left the house. Just like dad, mum, and grandma and grandpa did.
No one I knew talked about "EDC" ...and taking into consideration most only hade one or two (the second was usually a Sunday go to meetin' knife, "never" carried during the week) it truly was "everyday" carry.
Admittedly, by Junior high and Highschool, there were a few weirdo's, like me, who had a 4 blade Scout/Camp knife and a Barlow, Pen/jack knife, or stockman in their pocket, and a Buck 110 or Puma lockback, or a one or two blade slipjoint folding hunter on their belt.
Some of the girls likely had a paring knife and a slipjoint of some kind in their purse.
(paring knife in a they made it in home economics cerial box cardboard or canvas or nylon sheath.)

We never had a student go on a rampage with his or her knife, nor the .22 rifle and/or shotgun (depending on what critters and were in open hunting season) they had out in their car.

 

[eisman]

This thread, having digressed in multiple directions, I'd like to point out that there is a major difference between using multiple different words to mean the same thing vs. using one word to mean multiple different things. (Even in English, which is a pretty screwed up language.)

 

[Jack Black]

It's so frustrating when posters just make up, and post, rubbish. Knife history is like any other history, it has to be researched, you can't just make things up

 

[black mamba]

What are everyone's takes on using manufacturers names vs. historically accepted pattern names? My prime example are the GEC #53 Cubans that I collect, which are clearly an equal end cattle knife, but GEC calls a stockman (which has a serpentine frame). It reminds me of the boy named Sue. It's not a boy's name, but is still his name, and therefore correct!

 

[waynorth]

It reminds me of the boy named Sue. It's not a boy's name, but is still his name, and therefore correct!

Seems there are a lot of Boys without Boy's names these days!!
Humor aside, I like the name "Zulu Spear"! I don't know if certain Africans resent cultural appropriation, but that name doesn't strike me as demeaning, when it describes and names a subset of blades!

 

[Peregrin]

Seems there are a lot of Boys without Boy's names these days!!
Humor aside, I like the name "Zulu Spear"! I don't know if certain Africans resent cultural appropriation, but that name doesn't strike me as demeaning, when it describes and names a subset of blades!
View attachment 1714579View attachment 1714581View attachment 1714582View attachment 1714583

I think I recall that Case's Tony Bose Inspired Tribal Spear, was called a Zulu Spear by Tony. Case decided it was a problem using that name because of the African Zulu tribe.

 

[Peregrin]

I think I recall that Case's Tony Bose Inspired Tribal Spear, was called a Zulu Spear by Tony. Case decided it was a problem using that name because of the African Zulu tribe.

OK, seems I miss remembered this. I found this post. It's likely more accurate.
This is a quote from Kerry Hampton, for some reason I'm unable to reference the quoted post.

I found it interesting that the "Zulu Spear" name for this years Case collab couldn't be used because it was already trademarked by another knife company (Buck, I think) so "Tribal Spear" was chosen. Naming is important and when you have a good one then you want to protect it.

 

[waynorth]

"Zulu Spear"

Of course, as shown in post #76 above, Schrade used the name in their catalog in the 1920s - I wonder if that constitutes a copyright?? Moot now, perhaps??

 

[Peregrin]

Of course, as shown in post #76 above, Schrade used the name in their catalog in the 1920s - I wonder if that constitutes a copyright?? Moot now, perhaps??

Maybe that's what Kerry was referring to?