Blade steel vs cost

R.W.Clark

R.W.Clark

Joined
Apr 30, 2001
Messages
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I have to get some opinions on this one from you guys.

Is a slighty better steel worth the added cost. I am leaving Talonite and damascus out of this.

Lets say you have steel #1 very good high quality and has been used by hundreds of top makers for over 20 years. Now you have steel #2. Pretty new, but it is one of the new breed of designer steels. They are made by the same company. Steel #2 tests to be about 10% better all around than steel #1, but costs 500% more. Even the company rep, confides that the advantages are not worth the cost. Now if using #2 raises the price of a $200 to $300, do you feel it is worth it?

I have been thinking of doing a few blades in steel #2 but I am not sure if there would be any demand. For a medium hunter is a 10% increase in steel quality worth a 500% increase in materials costs?

I will let you guys decide if there is an answer.
 
10% overall performance improvement does not justify 500% price. Even less if steel #1 (we are talking about ATS34 , aren't we :)) is a good steel. If you really want to give it a try, start with one knife only.
 
A 500% increase in steel costs that raises the cost of a knife from $200 to $300 dollars (without taking into account the difficulty of working a new steel) would seem to imply that steel 1 costs about $20 dollars a pound, while steel 2 costs over $100 a pound. Not sure how many steels cost $100 a pound, but I think it's pretty much only talonite/stellite/damascus that fall into that price range. R.W., are you deriving the price increase from materials costs alone, or from projected working costs (extra belts, more time)?
 
I'm aware of most all knife steels and don't know any that fit in those descriptions. I've even bought some pretty fancy steels from Europe, and so far nothing has cost me over $20 per pound. Steel is cheap; even great steels are cheap in the overall scheme of things.

How about naming some names?
 
Is a slightly better steel worth it and is the steel really any better? Probably not. Do people scramble to try the latest and supposedly greatest...I think so. I am guilty of wanting to try a variety of steel. Some actually seem to do a better job. But then again I get one knife with a given grind and blade shape etc. in one steel, then another totally different knife in a different steel. So it is not even a realistic or fair comparison.
 
In the law of diminishing returns some people would say that a price increase of 50% for a 10% increase in quality is worth the money. I disagree with this. The only steel that I would pay that big an increase for is damascus.

If the price of the steel goes up 50% that should not mean that the price of the knife goes up nearly that much. If the cost of the other materials and labour stays the same you should not have to raise the price of the knife that much to cover the increase in the price of the steel. If this steel is harder to work, uses more belts and takes more time, then you would probably be correct in thinking that the price would have to go up that much.
 
Sorry, my whole last post was an obvious error. You posted that the price of the steel was five times the price of the other steel not 50% higher so my whole theory goes right out the window. There is no way that I would pay five times as much for a 10% increase in quality.

If you don't mind my asking, what is this steel that costs so darn much?
 
All depends upon what kind of knife the maker seeks to achieve. To find and know a steel that has the potential to match the goals of performance the knife maker seeks can be a life long endeavor. Cost of the steel is of little consequence when you consider the investment in time and energy involved on the part of the maker. I have only so much time to achieve the knife of my dreams. I will invest that time using the steel with the greatest potential to meet my goals. Within reason, the cost is of little consequence in my opinion.
 
In the past week I've been yakking to my man in Japan about some hot poop steels that he uses. Unfort I had to pass at the moment, there's no way I can pass on the added cost (considerable) of using these steels as a newcomer...mebbe in a year's time, yes ;)
 
I guess the moral is, for newbies probably not, but for the established makers, yes.
 
I ordered a knife from a local maker a couple of months ago. I had my choice of steels, and there is no way I would have paid that kind of premium price for a steel only 10% better. I guess it is the cheapskate in me. :) I don't have a problem with 154CM or ATS 34, of course I don't seem to use my knives quite as hard as some other forumites do. BTW, I did go with the knifemakers recommendation and ordered 154CM. He felt that for my needs it was a great steel. :D Just my $.02.
 
Why wouldn't a maker use the best and make the best knife he or she can. I cannot beleive the price of 1 part of the knife is that big a deal unless you are talking about gold or some other real hi priced thing. If I was a maker I would use the best steel I could.
 
I have my reasons for not listing the exact steels. Well steel one could be ATS-34 or 154CM, but steel two shall remain nameless. If you really want to know, feel free to e-mail me privately.

For those of you who say there can't possibly be that big of a price differance between stainless steels. I will name exact figures. For one foot of steel 1 I just today paid $10. For the same exact size in steel 2 the price (directly from the manufacturer) is $80. So I was wrong it is not a 500% increase it is a 800% increase.

On a knife that normally sells for $225, that is a HUGE differance. To say that the cost of steel is minor, to me sounds kind of a flipant remark. If I were selling the knife for $900, ya its a minor issue. But it is major on lower priced knives.

Ed, I can agree with a part of your thinking. But knifemaking is also a business. And to run it as such takes much more care than that. If I were making one special knife in an attempt to reach that holy grail, that would be one thing. But to make a top quality product that most people can afford, that is a whole new story.
 
Isn't the knife maker's time worth much more than the materials in this case?

Why don' you trust their material choises?:confused: :confused:
 
Burce Voyles made some very thought provoking statments concerning knives, publishing and business in the last issue of Knives Illustrated, they can be found on the last page, just inside the back cover. Food for thought for all of us.

Knifemaking is not a business to me, I would rather use words like, love, commitment, magnificient obcession, persuit of a dream. The remaining frontiers in the world of knives are limited only by the drive and creativity of those who visit.

For the newcomer who has many basic skills to achieve, cost of materials may certainly be an issue. I used sheep horn for handles because I could not afford Micarta. This turned out to be a very fortunate sacrafice. We all have the palce we want to be this is what knife making is all about.
 
R.W., you are quite correct in your assertion that in a lower cost knife an 800% increase in the cost of steel would make a huge difference in the final price of a knife. Anyone who thinks differently just look at the price of a knife made from 154CM and the same knife when Talonite or Stellite is used (or damascus for that matter). If the customer is willing to pay the price then fine or if you are comfortable with the fact that you will have to charge more for your knives, then go ahead and use this extremely expensive steel. If not, ATS34 or 154CM have been used to make many great knives.
 
Hey R.W.
For me its simple... I offer knives with base prices for materials like 154, D2, and A2, all are similar in price... If someone wants Talonite, BG-42, 440V, damascus etc. I just add the price of the material and any special handling to the price of the blade.. My customers have no problem with it, they are told up front what things cost. If a customer is requesting a certain material it figures they have done some homework and they know the performance differences however small they might be... Just my .02

Take Care
Trace Rinaldi
www.thrblades.com
 
I love BG-42 over all other steels. I know it costs more to get, but I want it anyway. I expect to pay more for it, and it's not a problem. I do like that makers say up front that if you want a specific steel, it'll up the price of the knife "X" dollars. Let's you know what you're getting yourself into right off the bat. :D
 
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