Blade Steels.

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Odin's Son

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We all have questions about blade steels. The subject comes up in every other post with so many different views. The article I just read (fell upon through random google searching) is probably the most important article I could read as a knife consumer. It opened my eyes so much regarding blade steels and will change the way I make future purchases.

For those interested I share this article with you "440C: A Love/Hate Affair"
 
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Doesn't matter what steel the blade is made of, if it isn't going to be used.
 
The way a knife looks & feels in hand are by far my biggest concerns. I constantly find myself saying 'Ugh, that's an ugly knife, not interested' but never saying 'Man, that knife looks amazing but it's got 8cr13mov, not interested'...know what I mean? Sometimes the best isn't good enough for me while other times mediocrity is exactly right. Go figure.
 
fetzer85 said:
The way a knife looks & feels in hand are by far my biggest concerns. I constantly find myself saying 'Ugh, that's an ugly knife, not interested' but never saying 'Man, that knife looks amazing but it's got 8cr13mov, not interested'...know what I mean? Sometimes the best isn't good enough for me while other times mediocrity is exactly right. Go figure.
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I think 8cr13mov or 9cr**** are the bottom for me. I saw a knife I liked but it was 420 or 3cr*** and I passed because of that.
 
440C properly heat treated is good steel. 440A tends to be the junk steel because it's cheaper than 440C.
 
I'm not sure all his info is correct. The reason many knives are not mirror finished is because many people don't like mirror finishes. Duh. Plus its time consuming with very little return in many cases.

Also, 440C is many times stronger than Carbon steels? I'm not sure 440C at 58HRC is many times stronger than 1095 at 60HRC.

But, just like every other maker he writes about, he's trying to sell knives and thinks his stuff, 440C is this case, is the best.

440C is okay, but plenty of modern steels offer better performance in cutlery.
 
Most of the knives on that page really don't look like they're meant to be used, so again, his bladesteel of choice doesn't really matter.
 
gooeytek said:
Most of the knives on that page really don't look like they're meant to be used, so again, his bladesteel of choice doesn't really matter.
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Oh cool.

For me this article just reinforced my previous beliefs that 440C is a good steel and I can count on blades that are not S35V or Elmax etc.
 
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"CPM154CM is a beautiful steel, but when compared to 440C, is less corrosion resistant."

When I read that, I disregarded all information on the page.
 
RemyKaze said:
"CPM154CM is a beautiful steel, but when compared to 440C, is less corrosion resistant."

When I read that, I disregarded all information on the page.
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Why?? Is CPM154CM not a beautiful steel or is it not less corrosion resistant than 440C?
 
Odin's Son said:
Why?? Is CPM154CM not a beautiful steel or is it not less corrosion resistant than 440C?
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There is no such steel as CPM154CM. There is 154cm, and the improved version which is CPM154. A person trying to explain knife steels should at least know the names of said steels.
 
Odin's Son said:
Oh cool.

For me this article just reinforced my previous beliefs that 440C is a good steel and I can count on blades that are not S35V or Elmax etc.
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I would rather take a piece of steel such as O1, 1055, 420....whatever other steel that is HEAT TREATED properly and sharpened correctly above any steel with a mediocre or "secret" heat treat with a crappy edge . Many hear do not have a problem with 440C. If you read many threads regarding this steel vs that steel all it comes down to is personal preference and one very key aspect many forget when it comes to steel performance, heat treat and the EDGE you put on it for your uses.

We are spoiled for choice these days when it comes to steel.

"Steel is the heart of the blade, heat treating is the spirit"

SHIRT.5.jpg
 
Jay Fisher must have a lot of 440C on hand, and likes using less expensive steels. Frankly, not a single one of his knives appeals to me at all, design or material.
 
Fanglekai said:
440C properly heat treated is good steel. 440A tends to be the junk steel because it's cheaper than 440C.
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But when it is properly heat treated it's not junk steel and it will get the job done. Though few companies I know of do a proper heat treat on 440a from what I've hear. I own 2 knives in this steel a Rough Rider Canoe and Kershaw Black horse II. I actually bought the Kershaw because the 440a was one of the selling points for me as I wanted something with a bit more corrosion resistance for the work I intended to put that knife through.

Unfortunately a lot of companies do a poor heat treat on 440a so it tends to be junk steel more often than not :(.
 
Something a friend pointed out to me about budget steels is that they are often used by companies trying to cut corners and bring production costs down, and steel itself isn't the only part of the process where they are being stingy. They'll try to save money on the heat treat and any labor intensive part of the process. So, from some budget manufacturers, you don't only get some flavour of 420 for your blade steel, but also some quick and cheap HT and probably mediocre finish, not the best way to showcase a steel.

Take that same steel and do things properly, and you get a very different result. I have a Buck stockman in 420hc that is quite good. It won't keep and edge like my S90V knives, but it cost a fraction of their price while still delivering good enough performance. I still love my snobby super steels, though.

About the article, I don't agree with a lot of what he says (some parts sound a lot like conspiracy theories) and his knives are not my cup of tea. But each maker is free to choose his materials and explain why he does so however he likes. I remember Ed Fowler saying something along the lines of "I make knives from 52100 steel, with any handle material asmlong as it comes from a sheep's head.". 52100, sheephorn and a certain blade design work well for him, he's open about his reasons and his customers agree (I love his work, by the way).
 
Depends how you define "stronger" Is 440C still a decent steel assuming that you can get a clean batch? Sure. Is 440C tougher than carbon/tool steels like CPM 3V, L6, A2, 5160 or even W2? HELLS NO!!! Not even freakin' close. But in some mirror polished alternate dimensional bizarro world, it might be. ;)
TriviaMonster said:
I'm not sure all his info is correct. The reason many knives are not mirror finished is because many people don't like mirror finishes. Duh. Plus its time consuming with very little return in many cases.

Also, 440C is many times stronger than Carbon steels? I'm not sure 440C at 58HRC is many times stronger than 1095 at 60HRC.

But, just like every other maker he writes about, he's trying to sell knives and thinks his stuff, 440C is this case, is the best.

440C is okay, but plenty of modern steels offer better performance in cutlery.
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My experience with properly treated 440C has been very positive. In particular, I have a Buck 110 and 112 that take and hold a shaving edge for a good long time. Perhaps it is because of the edge carbides, but the 440C seems to cut better than many other steels. I guess as with everything, when it is properly done, you have a good tool.
 
RemyKaze said:
There is no such steel as CPM154CM. There is 154cm, and the improved version which is CPM154. A person trying to explain knife steels should at least know the names of said steels.
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I just googled CPM154CM and lots of results popped up, some including companies selling CPM154CM. So I'm not so sure.

Anyway, not pointing anyone out in particular, but I never thought this thread would bring out a bitchy debate attitude from some, I just thought it could add knowledge to some peoples brains.
 
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