Blade Steels.

Odin's Son said:
I just googled CPM154CM and lots of results popped up, some including companies selling CPM154CM. So I'm not so sure.

Anyway, not pointing anyone out in particular, but I never thought this thread would bring out a bitchy debate attitude from some, I just thought it could add knowledge to some peoples brains.
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It can be quite a challenge to add knowledge to those who don't give a **** and want to argue for arguments sake.
 
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Odin's Son said:
I just googled CPM154CM and lots of results popped up, some including companies selling CPM154CM. So I'm not so sure.

Anyway, not pointing anyone out in particular, but I never thought this thread would bring out a bitchy debate attitude from some, I just thought it could add knowledge to some peoples brains.
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CPM154CM is one of the best steels out there and is not just an internet typo... It doesn't compare to my unobtanium blade in terms of edge retention or toughness though.




Just pulling your leg.

:D:p
 
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Odin's Son said:
It opened my eyes so much regarding blade steels and will change the way I make future purchases.

For those interested I share this article with you "440C: A Love/Hate Affair"
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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. It's especially dangerous to pick one heavily-biased advertisement and present it as gospel, or even as a good starting point for further study. Joe Talmadge's Knife Steel FAQ page is much more balanced and complete.

TriviaMonster said:
I'm not sure all his info is correct.
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That's putting it mildly.

jdm61 said:
Depends how you define "stronger" Is 440C still a decent steel assuming that you can get a clean batch? Sure. Is 440C tougher than carbon/tool steels like CPM 3V, L6, A2, 5160 or even W2? HELLS NO!!! Not even freakin' close. But in some mirror polished alternate dimensional bizarro world, it might be. ;)
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You will likely get a long, exasperated and rather snarky email from him within days of posting that - just like I did the last time his name and claims came up, and I dared to contradict him.
 
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Mannlicher said:
Jay Fisher must have a lot of 440C on hand, and likes using less expensive steels. Frankly, not a single one of his knives appeals to me at all, design or material.
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Me either by the looks of the knives in the article and to be honest, half of that article(half of what I read, I couldn't get through all of it) is an advertisement for himself. I find that funny. He's doing the same thing that he is whining about with other knife makers. It seems that unless you do everything just like him, you're not a good knife maker. LOL...I haven't seen a blowhard article like that in a while. Good stuff!:D

To the matter at hand; I don't really take any claim as fact about any steel or any knife until I've used it. Research can only narrow your choice down so much. You eventually have to use the tool to see if it will work for you.
 
From briefly reading the noted page,
Mr.Jay Fisher knows what he is talking about concerning 440A,440B, 440C & CPM-154CM and knife making for users and show pieces.

I currently use both 440C & CPM-154CM along with other stainless steels for my knives.

Heat treated properly for it's intended use, 440C is a excellent steel for many applications and has been around since the 1950's and will be here for many more years.
 
In my humble opinion,modern tool steel specifically formulated for knife making, and correctly heat treated,(according to or by the manufacturer)that is available, is the best.This will vary in name and quality in different country's or areas.
In South Africa I have access to Bohller Uderhollm N690 that complies to German industry standards.
 
Shotgun said:
Me either by the looks of the knives in the article and to be honest, half of that article(half of what I read, I couldn't get through all of it) is an advertisement for himself. I find that funny. He's doing the same thing that he is whining about with other knife makers. It seems that unless you do everything just like him, you're not a good knife maker. LOL...I haven't seen a blowhard article like that in a while. Good stuff!:D
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He does like to toot his own horn for sure... :D Some of the design sure are... out there a bit...

I'm sure other custom knives are fecal matter by comparison. ;)

Boker still uses 440C in it's production knives so it can't be that bad.
 
Odin's Son said:
I just googled CPM154CM and lots of results popped up, some including companies selling CPM154CM. So I'm not so sure.

Anyway, not pointing anyone out in particular, but I never thought this thread would bring out a bitchy debate attitude from some, I just thought it could add knowledge to some peoples brains.
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People have differing opinions. If you post a thread you're almost never going to have everyone agree with your opinion. That's the whole idea behind the term forum. It is a place for discussion and debate. Just go with the flow; everyone gets their chance to say what they want. It works.

And I'm tellin ya man, they are two different steels. 154cm stands for Crucible Metallurgy, and CPM154 is Crucible Powder Metallurgy, which is an upgraded version of the steel, which is itself a modified/upgraded version of 440c. I'm not arguing, I'm just saying if the guy doesn't know his steels, I'm not interested in what he has to say as a knifemaker. It would have been better for him to profess no knowledge of the two steels.
 
Czechmate said:
CPM154CM is one of the best steels out there and is not just an internet typo... It doesn't compare to my unobtanium blade in terms of edge retention or toughness though.




Just pulling your leg.

:D:p
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Unobtainium?! I'll pit my adamantium tactical bushcrafter with diamond handles against that any day of the week.
 
All Entrek knives are made of 440C and are tough as heck and hold a great edge. Just watch a few Youtube vids on Entreks and you will see that 440C can be an awesome steel when done properly.
 
I can never find knives in CPM154. I have a few in 154CM, and some in 440C. I like both because they're in the middle ground in terms of edge retention versus how difficult they are to sharpen at work or in the field. Most of my stuff is S30V and I usually need a diamond sharpener.

Odins Son, I don't think anyone is getting on your case, so much as debating. If you're insulting people, they're gonna insult you back, and ya can't very well get mad at a response you instigated. Chill out dude, or Thor's ban hammer will descend on you. :p No but really, no need to get rude over someone having a different opinion. Other people may not know everything, but neither do you. Relax, take in what is being said, and if someone has better info than you, accept it and recheck your facts.
 
RemyKaze said:
I can never find knives in CPM154. I have a few in 154CM, and some in 440C. I like both because they're in the middle ground in terms of edge retention versus how difficult they are to sharpen at work or in the field. Most of my stuff is S30V and I usually need a diamond sharpener.

Odins Son, I don't think anyone is getting on your case, so much as debating. If you're insulting people, they're gonna insult you back, and ya can't very well get mad at a response you instigated. Chill out dude, or Thor's ban hammer will descend on you. :p No but really, no need to get rude over someone having a different opinion. Other people may not know everything, but neither do you. Relax, take in what is being said, and if someone has better info than you, accept it and recheck your facts.
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CPM 154 has been used by the Custom guys for the most part, but there have been a few models by different production companies over the years.

Strider currently is using it.

Kershaw has/had a model out lately.

Buck did a limited run of their 110.

CPM 154 is really one of the more balanced steels available for general all around use, it isn't to be confused with the ingot 154CM as they aren't really the same steel, performance of CPM 154 is generally higher. It has very good edge retention and isn't chippy even at higher hardness of 62 RC so it can be used in a variety of different types of knives. It can take either a coarse or a more refined edge and it does well with either. It's very aggressive with a coarse edge and will continue to cut for a very long time, edge retention will be slightly less than CPM S30V at the same hardness. CPM 154 will be somewhat easier to sharpen than CPM S30V and will take a polish and or is easier to finish. It was brought out by Crucible for the Custom knife makers to be easier to work with and finish than CPM S30V.

CPM 154 performs extremely well due to the complicated Carbide structure and the added Vanadium (Not on the sheet) for both grain refinement and added wear resistance (edge retention). So that combined with the ability to be taken up to the 62 RC range it will provide a high level of performance.
 
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RemyKaze said:
I can never find knives in CPM154. I have a few in 154CM, and some in 440C. I like both because they're in the middle ground in terms of edge retention versus how difficult they are to sharpen at work or in the field. Most of my stuff is S30V and I usually need a diamond sharpener.
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Try finding makers using RWL-34, seems there are more makers using that then CPM154.

The added 0.2 % Vanadium is there as a grain refiner to my knowledge.

Here are two datasheets:

Michael West Rwl34-datasheet.pdf

Damasteel_Martensitic_Stainless_Steel_RWL-34.pdf

RWL-34 is IMO one of the best balanced steels with regards to Sharpness, Edge stability, Wear resistance, Toughness and Corrosion resistance.
 
Several posts were removed from here for sniping at each other instead of discussing the topic politely. They are in a special thread in Whine & Cheese, for the enjoyment of those who don't care.
 
vwb563 said:
All Entrek knives are made of 440C and are tough as heck and hold a great edge. Just watch a few Youtube vids on Entreks and you will see that 440C can be an awesome steel when done properly.
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I believe Entrek now make some in CPM154.
 
I have a Boye Basic 3 in Dendritic 440C. It can give my S30V knives a serious run for the money. It cuts like crazy (though with a tad less edge retention), holds an amazing "working edge" and is waaaaaay easier to sharpen. All things considered it is easily my favorite fixed blade I've ever had.
 
Odin's Son said:
Oh cool.

For me this article just reinforced my previous beliefs that 440C is a good steel and I can count on blades that are not S35V or Elmax etc.
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well, yeah. 440c is just fine. Elmax is a fancy premium steel.

Time to use a car reference...

440c is a civic. It's a decent priced and performing car. But if this were a gear head forum, no one would be excited about a civic.
 
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