Blade Steels

[cricketdave]

Lets bring this into context. What, I suspect, brought this thread into being is a discussion regarding the Southern Grind knives. Typically, they come with 14c28n steel on a nicely finished, well made knife.

Some of us have expressed our opinion on that thread. While mine is not alone, here is an example of what is, I think, puzzling Whitty:




I think that some folks in that thread are confusing personal preference and desire to statements that the knives are not any good (which isn't happening).

The bottom line here is that for $250 I can buy a better knife, with better steel, so why should I spend my limited $$$ on a product that I feel is using a mismatch steel-to-construction. And here is the most important statement - "That said, I don't begrudge anyone their choice or opinion that it is a good deal for them. It is just not a good value for my needs/want. Too many other options that fit my opinion of better value that I would prefer to buy."

Not sure why this would puzzle anyone. But it is JMO.

That is it exactly.

 

[Rapt_up]

That all really goes to what performance level a person wants in a knife.

It's about those choices I was talking about in the other posts here.

I don't see how that would or should confuse anyone.

With Spyderco, KAI and Benchmade really upping their game the knives really better perform like they say they will, especially in that price point....

And yes materials do matter.

That is my view too.

Given I'm a technical person, in a technical profession. So I have a technical bias, of facts and demonstrable results. Not mumbo jumbo and hearsay.

But I also value certain things, and one of them is not having to sharpen my EDC knives 'daily' to keep them very sharp. Another is not having to work hard at cutting things. So for these reasons I select "super steel" knives with blade geometries that help with that, and I have found that the truth is that while "plain steels" are easy to sharpen and make very sharp, they will dull just as easily. They simply cannot be made as hard as super steels.

So if I am going to pay $X for a knife I choose the one that will give me the best of those things.

 

[G. Scott H.]

I admit I'm not a "hard" user. I use my knives to cut food, open packages and mail, cut an occasional piece of leather or whittle an occasional piece of wood for the odd project, and other mundane tasks at home, and I use them to open packages and break down boxes at work. That's about it. I also clean the adhesives off whatever blade I'm using and give it a few swipes on the Lansky turn box when I get home from work each night. As such, any steel does fine for me. I have edc knives in everything from 420J2 to CPM-154 and numerous carbon alloys and hardnesses. I imagine if I worked in a setting where I was cutting lots of carpet or stripping lots of wire or some other more abrasive or abusive stuff or did a lot of long-term outdoor stuff, I'd probably be more enamored with the "uber" steels. Given that background, I look at how a knife is put together (F&F), the blade geometry and grind, what kinds of neat or unusual features it has, and how it feels in my hand and pocket (or on my belt) much more so than what steel it's made of. I got my CRKT Tighe Rod in AUS-8 on sale for $75, but I would gladly have paid the normal ~$100 price tag. Some people won't pay more than $40-50 for AUS-8, regardless of whatever else the knife has to offer. I think some people feel that way because they genuinely use their knives a lot harder or go much longer between touch ups than I do, but I also think some other people probably don't use their knives any harder than I do (if that) and feel that way just because they've repeatedly read that AUS-8 is a "lower" end steel or isn't desirable/acceptable above a certain price point, etc. In other words, they've fallen victim to the hype you mentioned. I think they sometimes don't really honestly look at what they are actually going to use the knife for and fall into thinking they need a "super" steel, based upon reading the posts of guys who use their blades much harder than they themselves ever will. It's an easy trap to fall into, whether you're talking knives or any other tool. I've done it myself a few times.

 

[whitty]

Lets bring this into context. What, I suspect, brought this thread into being is a discussion regarding the Southern Grind knives. Typically, they come with 14c28n steel on a nicely finished, well made knife.

Some of us have expressed our opinion on that thread. While mine is not alone, here is an example of what is, I think, puzzling Whitty:



I think that some folks in that thread are confusing personal preference and desire to statements that the knives are not any good (which isn't happening).

The bottom line here is that for $250 I can buy a better knife, with better steel, so why should I spend my limited $$$ on a product that I feel is using a mismatch steel-to-construction. And here is the most important statement - "That said, I don't begrudge anyone their choice or opinion that it is a good deal for them. It is just not a good value for my needs/want. Too many other options that fit my opinion of better value that I would prefer to buy."

Not sure why this would puzzle anyone. But it is JMO.

I appreciate your opinion and certainly respect it. Southern Grind was actually not the reason I had these thoughts/feelings/questions. They were just the final straw that broke the camels back. The knives that actually got me worked up on this some time ago are from some custom makers. Most being makers I do not even sell. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I do think a larger majority of knife people will turn away from a pricier knife because they do not see the higher end steel they come to expect with that price point. At the same time they are missing out on an incredible knife that can more than likely out cut, out sharpen and over time outlast the knife they bang their drum about everyday. Then again like you guys have said, everyone has their opinion! Regardless I really do appreciate the feedback!

Whitty

 

[Ankerson]

I appreciate your opinion and certainly respect it. Southern Grind was actually not the reason I had these thoughts/feelings/questions. They were just the final straw that broke the camels back. The knives that actually got me worked up on this some time ago are from some custom makers. Most being makers I do not even sell. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I do think a larger majority of knife people will turn away from a pricier knife because they do not see the higher end steel they come to expect with that price point. At the same time they are missing out on an incredible knife that can more than likely out cut, out sharpen and over time outlast the knife they bang their drum about everyday. Then again like you guys have said, everyone has their opinion! Regardless I really do appreciate the feedback!

Whitty

I think people should take the actual knife and maker into consideration so to a point I do agree.

Say a person sees a really well designed custom knife with excellent blade geometry that they really like and sees how the design etc really could perform very well, but it's in a lower end steel....... At a certain price range.....

Well OK, that looks awesome........

Then a few tables down they see another really well designed custom knife with excellent blade geometry etc as above...... Except it's in a higher end steel. ............ And it's in the same price range........

Both knives are from good makers, great HT etc ....... So that is apples to apples........

Yes, either one could and likely will out perform most production knives that are out of the box....... Perhaps depending on the actual knives.....

 

[Sonnydaze]

When I read, various times, that Jim Ankerson carries a S30V Millie as his EDC, with his EXTENSIVE background in testing such a long line of steels (from poor edge-holding to super-dupers like S110V), then I THINK that I begin to understand what he is saying.
Don as Sonnydaze

 

[Ankerson]

When I read, various times, that Jim Ankerson carries a S30V Millie as his EDC, with his EXTENSIVE background in testing such a long line of steels (from poor edge-holding to super-dupers like S110V), then I THINK that I begin to understand what he is saying.
Don as Sonnydaze

Yep, and I still do. :thumbup:

It needs to be sent off to Big Chris to be thinned out though as it's seen a lot of wear and tear over the past years, and I will be sending it off soon to be reground.

 

[SaintlyBrees]

I think people should take the actual knife and maker into consideration so to a point I do agree.

Say a person sees a really well designed custom knife with excellent blade geometry that they really like and sees how the design etc really could perform very well, but it's in a lower end steel....... At a certain price range.....

Well OK, that looks awesome........

Then a few tables down they see another really well designed custom knife with excellent blade geometry etc as above...... Except it's in a higher end steel. ............ And it's in the same price range........

Both knives are from good makers, great HT etc ....... So that is apples to apples........

Yes, either one could and likely will out perform most production knives that are out of the box....... Perhaps depending on the actual knives.....

That is perfectly stated and gets the point across much more eloquently (and succinctly) than my comments have. That hits the point spot-on.

 

[SoCal_kid]

I like the variety of steels. Helps me to figure out what I want in a blade steel. Personally I favor toughness and the ability to sharpen easily. I agree that heat treat and edge geometry play a huge part as well. It's fun to explore. I do end up going back to what is familiar to me though.

 

[Scurvy092]

I think the confusion with 14c28n is that it's a blanking steel. That's why make manufacturers can offer it so cheap. If you are water jetting or cutting them out by hand, you lose all of that cost savings of just being able to stamp them out.