Blade test?

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Kildeer1

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Hello Folks,

I have the itch for a new slipjoint pocket knife, and have been looking at reviews. Some leave me incredulous. Today I watched a Youtube review of a $70 pocket knife with a blade of high-grade budget steel. The reviewer made hundreds of cuts, in cardboard, various hoses, rope, etc, and the knife was shaving sharp at the end. Do you feel this could be real?

Tom
 
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Kildeer1 said:
Hello Folks,

I have the itch for a new slipjoint pocket knife, and have been looking at reviews. Some leave me incredulous. Today I watched a Youtube review of a $70 pocket knife with a blade of high-grade budget steel. The reviewer made hundreds of cuts, in cardboard, various boses, rope, etc, and the knife was shaving sharp at the end. Do you feel this could be real?

Tom
Click to expand...
Which "high-grade budget steel"?
Depending on who you talk to, that could be anything from 420HC to D2.
 
Okay... I gotta...

Any steel will take an edge. Any steel with a decent carbon content will take an edge and be at least somewhat durable. Simple steels usually require a careful, and often complicated, heat treating process to reach their full potential. A blade with excellent edge retention will usually be brittle and hard to sharpen. These properties are baked into the basic properties of the steel.

Heat treating is an expensive process. The blades of Inexpensive knives are usually heat treated in large batches, and rarely result in uniform results from one blade to another.

The overall edge geometry can influence edge holding.

Lastly, a lot depends on the knife. A $70 Sodbuster is likely to have better blade material than a $70 Congress. It's simple economics.

So... Maybe.
 
dsutton24 said:
Okay... I gotta...

Any steel will take an edge. Any steel with a decent carbon content will take an edge and be at least somewhat durable. Simple steels usually require a careful, and often complicated, heat treating process to reach their full potential. (1)A blade with excellent edge retention will usually be brittle and hard to sharpen. These properties are baked into the basic properties of the steel.

(2) Heat treating is an expensive process. The blades of Inexpensive knives are usually heat treated in large batches, and rarely result in uniform results from one blade to another.

(3)The overall edge geometry can influence edge holding.

(4)Lastly, a lot depends on the knife. A $70 Sodbuster is likely to have better blade material than a $70 Congress. It's simple economics.

So... Maybe.
Click to expand...
3) Edge geometry matters more than blade steel.
The keener the starting edge angle, the longer the "working edge" lasts.

(2) True. Heat Treat is expensive. ALL production knife blades are heat treated in large batches, regardless of if the heat treat is contracted or done in-house.
Large batches reduce costs and time. The process is automated. blades are heated to the correct temp in large ovens, they then move to quenching before the blades cool, then back into a oven for tempering.

(1) Depends on the steel composition. Some carbides are harder than others. A modern "super steel" that requires a SiC stone or a diamond plate to sharpen when hardened to 63+ RHC still needs the same SiC or diamonds to sharpen if run "soft" at 57-58 RHC.

(4) Nope. A $70 (and higher) Case Sodbuster with ss blades will have the same ss blades as a Case Congress with ss blades, that costs considerably more than the $70 sodbuster.
Blade steel alone does not determine the price of the knife. Other factors, such as (but not limited to) time to assemble, bolster, liner and cover materials, the amount of blade polishing, etc. affect costvmore than the blade steel does.
A Case stockman or trapper with their standard 420HC blade, does not cost much less than their stockman or trapper with S-35V blades.
 
I think it’s safe to post the brand name as long as you don’t link to it. Then the good folks here can tell you what they know about the brand.
 
afishhunter said:
3) Edge geometry matters more than blade steel.
The keener the starting edge angle, the longer the "working edge" lasts.

(2) True. Heat Treat is expensive. ALL production knife blades are heat treated in large batches, regardless of if the heat treat is contracted or done in-house.
Large batches reduce costs and time. The process is automated. blades are heated to the correct temp in large ovens, they then move to quenching before the blades cool, then back into a oven for tempering.

(1) Depends on the steel composition. Some carbides are harder than others. A modern "super steel" that requires a SiC stone or a diamond plate to sharpen when hardened to 63+ RHC still needs the same SiC or diamonds to sharpen if run "soft" at 57-58 RHC.

(4) Nope. A $70 (and higher) Case Sodbuster with ss blades will have the same ss blades as a Case Congress with ss blades, that costs considerably more than the $70 sodbuster.
Blade steel alone does not determine the price of the knife. Other factors, such as (but not limited to) time to assemble, bolster, liner and cover materials, the amount of blade polishing, etc. affect costvmore than the blade steel does.
A Case stockman or trapper with their standard 420HC blade, does not cost much less than their stockman or trapper with S-35V blades.
Click to expand...

You have your delusions, I have mine. :cool:
 
dsutton24 said:
You have your delusions, I have mine. :cool:
Click to expand...
Actually, Buck proved that edge geometry is more important than blade steel during the development of their "edge 2000" super hollow grind. Chuck Buck posted about it here back in 2001.
CJ Buck

Thread 'CATRA Edge Testing Results'

Here is the information from the engineers at Buck. Bill Keys and Pete Quintanilla (of pcks fame). If these images do not come through here is a web address to visit... following all this is a write up that Bill Keys did on steels and angles.

http://www.buckknives.com/bldfor.html

chart1.gif


chart2.gif


EFFECTS ON EDGE SHARPNESS
STEEL TYPES AND EDGE GEOMETRY

by Bill Keys
Engineering Supervisor
Buck Knives, Inc.

As with many complex issues, there are several different factors that can and do influence the...

Unfortunately the linked graphs are no longer available. But the text describes what they did and the results.

Short version.
A BG-42 blade made to their old blade profile was outperformed by a 420HC blade made to their new profile when tested on their CATRA machine.
 
knarfeng said:
Short version.
A BG-42 blade made to their old blade profile was outperformed by a 420HC blade made to their new profile when tested on their CATRA machine
Click to expand...
Exactly.
How many people are carrying a Victorinox Swiss army knife or even a folding utility knife that they don't even realize is getting dull because it's still cutting just fine ?

On cardboard I noticed with my edge 2000 Bucks because the spine thickness drags a bit more than a Victorinox or a utility knife blade, but with most other tasks that edge 2000 keeps the blade cutting pretty well even when it needs a touch up.
 
I had a Summer job in College years where I was, among other things, breaking down industrial quantiies of cardboard - pre recycling, for the dumpster. I chose to use my EDC Puma, I have it to this day. It held and holds a pretty good edge. I probably gave it a quick going over twice a week. There are tests, and there is actual use - the latter more interesting to me than an improbable scenario. Just me. My possibles bag has a stone and a diamond hone plus another knife.
 
Kildeer1 said:
Sandvik 14C28N is considered by many to be a budget steel, at the high end of the budget spectrum.
Click to expand...

It might save a lot of floundering around if you just told us what knife you're looking at. Regardless of what you might have read not all $70 knives are created equal.
 
Kildeer1 said:
Sandvik 14C28N is considered by many to be a budget steel, at the high end of the budget spectrum.
Click to expand...
Very good steel, as with most or all of Sandvik's steel varieties. Sandvik is known for their steel purity and fine grain, which means very fine, sharp edges are possible. And a lot of knife manufacturers known for making very good, thin blade grinds favor steels like this, of which 14C28N can be hardened up to 62 HRC. So, maybe the best of both worlds - steel quality + thin blade geometry - can come together in a knife that would perform as you described. :thumbsup:
 
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I really had an appreciation for the steel out of Sweden on their skinny knives,I remember a few boasts about super steel on knives of the hunters brought in for moose hunts,the claim was that a knife should stay sharp from beginning to end of cleaning a moose,maybe the super steel lasted longer but it didn't stay sharp through an entire moose because of all the sand and grit it the hide and sinew being a tough customer,we're the problem arose was the time and precision given to sharpen over the Swedish carbon or whatever was in the old timer skinning knives.i never saw the advantage but I'm sure many have had a different experience.
 
I have an old Herder sodbuster (farmer's knife) downstairs that a friend gave me years ago. Well worn and nothing to look at.
I leave it downstairs to open and process boxes from Amazon and elsewhere.

Every time I cut with that thin bladed knife of "basic" carbon steel, it brings a smile to my face. Cuts like crazy, sharpens up in a minute. It often makes me wonder about all the super steel in my collection.

Geometry cuts. (The quality of the steel and heat treatment will determine just how much longer, (or less), it may cut than another blade with similar geometry.)

(When I don't use the Herder, an Opinel paring knife, or a Mora I've had for years are its stand-ins.)
 
Kildeer1 said:
Sandvik 14C28N is considered by many to be a budget steel, at the high end of the budget spectrum.
Click to expand...
No.....its a really good steel that is just not as expensive as whatever the "magic steel of the week" is....
14C28N is an improved version of 12C27, which has for years been an industry standard in Sweden, as used on the ubiquitous Mora knife and others. There are a lot of really good knives out there made from 14C28N.
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dsutton24 said:
It might save a lot of floundering around if you just told us what knife you're looking at. Regardless of what you might have read not all $70 knives are created equal.
Click to expand...

I did not ask for a review or recomendation. I asked, is this test believable?
 
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