Blade versus Mountain Lion

Do remember that there are some things worse than death. I sure as hell wouldn't like to be something's meal.

At least w/ other humans, most all that you come across that are lethal to you only want you dead.
 
Originally posted by teknical
Do remember that there are some things worse than death. I sure as hell wouldn't like to be something's meal.
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Don't go in the Water.......ROFLMAO...:D
 
You don't need a knife for an attack, you need a pry stick. :D J/K I would say I would want the longest damned fixed blade they make, maybe even a short sword. :)
 
This might be a little off subject, but a long time ago I was giving a guy in highschool a hard time about the fact that he hunted everything including prairie dog, squirrel, crow, and any other animal that can be legally hunted. I told him hunting was too easy, and unfair. Up here the hunting is really good, and everytime I have gone out I have gotten what ever I was hunting. Any way, I told him if he wanted to hunt fairly he should get a big pile of animal guts and blood, lay down in it with a knife in his hand, and then fight whatever came along to eat the remains. I have thought about this several times, and where I live there are no bear, there are some bobcats, coyote, fox, and a few other smaller carnivores. What do you think the odds of coming out of a "hunt" like this without a serious injury. I am guessing it is illegal to hunt like that, I would never do it, but I kind of have a weird fantasy about fighting a wild animal in a semi-fair fight. So anybody have an opinion on this? keep in mind I have no plans to do this, don't recommend this to anyone else, and I feel pretty stupid even posting this, but it is something I have thought about, so I figured I would throw it out here. What do you think?
 
Bruise Lee's post illustrates that lack of knowledge is what will most likely create a bad encounter with a bear. Understand bear behavior (black bears and grizzes are different in many ways -- yet both unpredictable in the end overall). Understand proper food storage, proper dress (don't sleep in the same clothes you just wore while cooking that open fire steak...guess what your clothes smell like).

The Mama bear in Bruise's story was after two things: food, and defnese of her cubs. I have no doubt Bruise would've been killed, period, because the bear was 'maxxed out" in terms of need to attack).

Knowledge is the key. A knife will never save the ignorant in any situation.

Best,

Brian.
 
Thanks to All- Excellent!

I think that I will carry a knife even if it is a false sense of security. I think I might also make it a practice to carry a walking stick as some have suggested. I live near the Front Range in Denver and they have mountain lion sightings all the time. They are protected and as such come into neighborhoods on occassion looking for food. They have signs posted throughout many of the parks indicating lions. Because of the local laws you can't carry firearms. In fact you might be in trouble for just carrying a 6 inch blade (I think 3 1/2 inches is max). Most of the mountain trails are switchbacks with blind corners. It could be a real disadvantage for one unprepared. In fact, the other day a biker was stopped on the trail and he said that a lion had just jumped across the road ahead of him. He was white and shaking. I don't know if I am being paranoid because I'm new to this area or if being prepared is really the thing to do.
 
With mountain lions and bears, if a blade is your only means of defense, you really need to know where to strike in order touse it effectively, and most definately these animals will damn well try to maul you before they should expire (if you got them properly). As for a blade length, it really doesn't matter much. Most people in the woods carry some fixed bladed about or slightly over 6", and that should be enough.
The poor guy at Port Alice did fought off with the Buck 110, but the problem is that he left himself open by using two hands to open the knife, and the cougar saw the chance and try to attack. Good thing he survived. If I were you, I'd carry a fixed blade in a position that with one or two motion, you'd remove the knife from the sheath, and at the time your other arm can be used to defend your vitals (like your throat) from the animal.
Go see someone who's more experienced, and learn first the avoidance of the animal, and then figure where to strike if your avoidance plan fails.
 
Good advice, and too bad the fellow didn't have a Buck 110 automatic conversion.

Years ago I read a story in Sports Afield or Outdoor Life about a camper that actually killed a grizzly with a smallish slip-joint. Apparently, and if I recall correctly, the bruin was dragging the man out of his camp into the woods. The man had two hands free, so was able to unpocket his knife and stab the bear numerous times behind the shoulder through the ribcage. The bear eventually dropped him and lumbered off. The man staggered out and was found by other campers/hunters who summoned medical help. Rangers located the bear - dead - not far from where he dropped the man. I don't think he was as badly mauled as the man attacked by the Mtn. Lion. I think he just had puncture wounds in the hip and thigh. Very lucky.
 
Originally posted by Ankerson

2) Always be aware of what's around you at all times...(Don't be talking when you should be listening)

Well, yes, but it's also good to make noise periodically so you don't surprise the animal (this is most relevant with bears). see the comment about wearing a bell above.

nate
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I once hired a guide in Alaska to take me fishing. We hiked cross country to a place called Cardiac Lake. We had NO WEAPONS OF ANY KIND! O.K., fish hooks!!! I asked my my guide about this, because in Alaska you can walk 100 yards off the road and you are really in the wilderness, folks. I saw quite a few grizzlies there(not on that hike, thank God), so believe me, I was nervous. But, my guide wasn't concerned!

Believe it or not, just outside of LA we have coyotes, deer, racoon. possum. It's not all that uncommon for me to pull up my driveway and see coyotes trotting down the street! In the more urban areas, wild dogs are a much bigger hazard! They are really out of control in some parts of town. I keep thinking of that poor woman in San Francisco that was mauled to death by those two dogs....

My best friend's wife went to school to become an animal trainer. I remember there was this bobcat in a cage at their school. When there was just adults looking at the bobcat it was fine. Then their little 3 year old daughter arrived, and the bobcat went into predator mode! It actually started stalking the kid and looked like it was going to pouch even though there was a cage and 4 adults there! So, yes, to a wild animal we are just food.

Our ancestors would not have survived without tools, and a weapon is a specialized tool.

Bruise
 
Pah. You guys have it so easy with your Bears and Mountain Lions. Over here we have REALLLY dangerous creatures - viscious ninja attack squirrels.
I carry a toothpick as a pry-bar, and a Spyderco Ladybug, as the Cuda Max tends to go right through and take out passers-by.

Squirrel attack

:eek: :eek:
 
I've had the pleasure of living in Alaska for the last 25 years. During this time I have had numerous bear encounters, most of which ended with the bear running away. On three occasions I had to resort to the use of firearms, which I always carry in the bush. Of these three, the two ended when I shot my .44 magnum just over the bear's head. They both turned and ran away. The third ended in the bear's death. Fortunately, I was moose hunting at the time and so I carried a .338 Winchester Magnum, with which I placed one shot between the charging bear's eyes (yes, it was a lucky shot). It dropped in its tracks. It either of these instances I would not want to have been standing there with just a knife in my hands. Brown bears are incredibly strong and fast and it would take incredible luck to kill a brown bear with a knife. Black bears are generally smaller than brown/grizzlies, but are known to attack and consume human beings. I believe I could dispatch a black bear with a suitably sized knife, but I would not come out of it unscathed. I have no experience with Mountain Lions, so I cannot comment there. As for the law and carrying firearms in the woods, well, I say let your conscience be your guide. I would rather be standing in front of a judge explaining why I used a handgun to save myself from a bear/lion than lying in a hospital or the morgue. Remember the saying, it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by six. Any law that prevents us from carrying implements we need to protect ourselves and/or our loved ones is wrong and is worthy of civil disobedience in my book, but that's just my take on it. One final thought. Many folks up here carry bear spray, some have even used it successfully. One Fish and Game guy I talked to who has investigated numerous bear encounters, including some that were fatal to the human involved, told me that some bears seem to dislike the bear spray while others seem to consider it flavoring. Good luck.
 
You are correct that your knife will be a false sense of security. Somebody asked one time about a knife for a shark attack. The response that got me chuckling went something like this...

"Pick a nice dull one so it won't hurt as much when it shoves it up your ass."

I laughed pretty hard on that one, but it was true enuff. I hike into the Olympics all the time. Bears all over in there, big mountain lions too. I carry a swiss army knife. Why? Cuz it has all those nifty tools on there, that's why. If I am unfortunate enough to have a bear or cougar try to take me out, it doesn't matter what knife I'm packing... I'm dinner on a stick. Sure, I'd probably fight like hell against a mountain lion, but I'd lose. Call that a defeatist attitude if you'd like, but that old guy in Canada was a lucky fluke.

I don't worry about the bears either. The blacks run for the hills before I ever spot 'em. You could wear a bell if you'd like, lotsa people do. The griz is another animal entirely. He's right up there with the big cat... he wants me, I'm belly filler. I just can't justify the weight in a backpacking scenario for a big blade for defense against critters. It's weight I don't need and it won't help me out one bit.

Good way to determine what kind of bears are in the area is to check the bear poop. Black bear spoor has berries and leaves in it. Grizzly dung has little bells in it and smells like pepper spray. ;)
 
The Buck Nighthawk would be my choice for fighting off a bear or other such animal. The Nighthawk's blade pattern and grind should provide for good penetration and a nice wound channel. And, the Nighthawk's handle provides an excellent grip. And further, I have a Nighthawk and I really like the knife. So, take that! you pesky bears. But of course, this all fantasy for me, because I love Smoky and his whole extended family, including Yogi & Booboo, and the Berenstein Bears, too.
 
Originally posted by Velitrius

Good way to determine what kind of bears are in the area is to check the bear poop. Black bear spoor has berries and leaves in it. Grizzly dung has little bells in it and smells like pepper spray. ;)
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ROFLMFAO....:D


Like the other old saying:

"How do you tell the difference between a Black Bear and a Grizzly?

The Black Bear will climb up the tree after you and the Grizzly will knock down the tree."
 
Originally posted by Ankerson
5) Bears...Black Bears won't attack humans unless it's a female with cubs...just back away slowly if you can, if not play dead...Black Bears are not meat eaters...other than fish...they don't hunt to eat meat.
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I'm no expert, but I've found that to be true in my experience. I've only glimpsed bears a few rare times, and almost always only their tailends as they ran way. I had a mother and cubs walk by my tent once.. but they left the area without incident.

But, watching TV, I've heard a few good stories...

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On the discovery channel a while back, they had a show on bear attacks. One of the stories was pretty frightening. Apparently, it was a true story. I think it was this video ( Bear Attack: The Predatory Black Bear )

I believe it was on the border with Canada... A couple were canoeing between the islands, and camping on them. Apparently, from what the police were able to reconstruct, a small bear (not a grizzly: was either a black or brown, I can't remember) swam up to the island, ignored the grocery bags full of food, and proceeded to kill and eat the couple. The bear then buried the remainder of the bodies as a food stash for later. It never even touched the groceries. I believe the authorities were able to put the bear down.

During the same show, they had a few different video tapes from people who were actively hunted by bears. Pretty freaking scary. Reminded me of a the look you get from a big dog, when you've got a treat for them.
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Outside of the "when animals attack"-type TV shows, I don't think bear attacks are at all common.

I think that most people get killed/injured around bears doing something stupid. Like picking up that cute cub for a photo-op, or trying to hand feed one a steak. Some people are incredibly stupid. One time, I saw a group of tourists try to pet a wild bison. :eek:

Your best bet against bears, is to take precautions. Keep food, dishes, and smelly items far away from camp, preferably tied up in bear bags. Keep all food away from sleeping areas. Never hike alone. Stay away from cubs. Don't go into unfamiliar areas without checking with a ranger for unforeseen dangers.

Bear bells are supposed to work. At least they prevent surprises. A gun is probably your best bet for active defense.

Bear spray I'm a little wary of. You have to be a LOT closer than I would ever want to be to an angry bear to use it. I'm not sure that its been proven to be effective, either. It seems like a lot of weight/space to carry for something that might be a placebo weapon at best.

A good hiking stick couldn't hurt, as they are valuable anyways, and you could always hit the bear on the nose with it.

A knife might work.. though I sure wouldn't want to try it. 99% of the time, I have a knife with me, so at least it's convenient. And, you know it will hurt, so you'll leave that bear with a memento to remember you by. :)

The vast majority of people never get attacked, or even menaced by a bear. Don't worry too much about it. Take the right precautions, and you won't have a problem.

I've had more headaches from raccoons attacking my food supply, than from bears. Enjoy your trip!

-- Rob
 
I've encountered bears while deer hunting, and every time they have fled the instant they detected me. My closest encounter, I was sitting in a downed Oak (which keep their leaves after falling) and 4 black bears (one of them was a cinnamon, very pretty) were headed straight for me. A momma and 3 cubs. When they got less than 20 yards from me, I thought, "oh damn, if they get real close, and momma sees me she might attack" so I let them see me, and they ran like hell.
I think a cat would be different. Being ambush hunters, you would probably not see them until they we ON YOU. They clamp the windpipe and asphyxiate you. You might get a stab in, but it's probably cash out time. If you did hurt them enough (they may die from stabs later, but might not drive them off), they may then think they are the attacked one, and fight to do damage, instead of just kill prey.
Just my opinion.
 
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