"Blood groove" on 119/120

Gee makes me want to go out and start malleting a 119.
I have an early Marble's Ideal and I've used it 'some'. I don't buy into the idea of a fullers groove reducing friction when cutting large portions of meat. I've cut up a lot of meat and never felt a fullers groove would help the blade slide better. I've thought Buck's groove was decorative. DM
 
David Martin said:
Gee makes me want to go out and start malleting a 119.
I have an early Marble's Ideal and I've used it 'some'. I don't buy into the idea of a fullers groove reducing friction when cutting large portions of meat. I've cut up a lot of meat and never felt a fullers groove would help the blade slide better. I've thought Buck's groove was decorative. DM
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Did you ever use a Marble's Ideal? It's not just any fuller. It begins at the top edge of the primary bevel, unlike the Buck 119 or "Ka-Bar" (MK II)

 
Thomas Linton said:
Did you ever use a Marble's Ideal? It's not just any fuller. It begins at the top edge of the primary bevel, unlike the Buck 119 or "Ka-Bar" (MK II)

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That groove would provide significant weight reduction and would also look like an I in cross section. But how much does a knife really weigh? A pocket knife that is too heavy makes your pants sag, but a belt knife hangs on the belt and I cannot see how the reduction of a couple of ounces really matters.

If that groove is 3/4" high x3.5" long x 0.1" deep and there is one on each side then it saves about 2-3 ounces.

It looks cooler than the Buck groove though. And if you ever end up in court because you stabbed someone with a Buck 119 the opposing attorney is going to call it a "blood groove." Twenty times or more. With the Marble it is much easier to say that it is a "lightening cutout." I'm not so worried about that and I love my Buck 119. I just do not think the groove does anything of significance.
 
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Pondoro2310 said:
That groove would provide significant weight reduction and would also look like an I in cross section. But how much does a knife really weigh? A pocket knife that is too heavy makes your pants sag, but a belt knife hangs on the belt and I cannot see how the reduction of a couple of ounces really matters.

If that groove is 3/4" high x3.5" long x 0.1" deep and there is one on each side then it saves about 2-3 ounces.
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Again, Marble felt the groove reduced friction when cutting thick meat. He did not say anything about weight, or stiffness for that matter.
 
David Martin said:
I just wrote, 'I have one and I use it'.? DM
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Dave - I propose that you get a nice thick steak - sirloin, since they are not too tender, and use both your Marble and a Buck 119 on it. Then report back. I'd love one of those old Marble knives, but they are well into three figures on the Bay.
 
I think Thomas could mean cutting up something on the order of a whole brisket or large roast. Which is what I used my Marbles on. DM
 
I think the groove is for harmonics. So when you use it as a hammer it doesn't ring like a bell.

Seriously though... while I see the Marbles groove as practical, similar to the vertical grooves on my kitchen knife that keeps the cheese from sticking to the blade, what Buck has done on their 119 & 120 is little more than a coarse groove to light a match.

Really, the amount of material removed is almost immeasurable in comparison to the weight of the knife, and the length certainly doesn't give the entire length of the blade any positive structural properties. If it were anything more than decorative, you wouldn't be able to buy a stainless fixed blade without the fuller.

It's for striking matches...:rolleyes:
 
So, what we need is several 119's without a fuller in the same steel and several of the same steel with a fuller and do strength testing.
 
MT_Pokt said:
what Buck has done on their 119 & 120 is little more than a coarse groove to light a match. It's for striking matches...:rolleyes:
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The groove on my late 70s 119 is as polished as the rest of the blade. No way it's striking a match.
 
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Yes, they're mostly polished like that. But I've seen a few that were left more coarse. DM
 
I must say that is a beautiful Marble's Ideal.

I've heard different explanations of fullers trough the years and really thought it never made a big difference. To me they just make certain knives "look right".
 
If anything, my guess is that Buck used the groove as a way to fine tune the balance, but more than likely, it's for aesthetics.


David Martin said:
Yes, they're mostly polished like that. But I've seen a few that were left more coarse. DM
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Yes, like this one. If anyone has a course groove, it would be interesting to know if it's course enough to strike a match.


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But hey I remember when we struck Blue-Tip matches on our pant legs. So, I think it's possible to do on a coarse fullers groove. DM
 
Yep, those Blue-Tips were the best. I'd still be interested to know if Diamond Strike-Anywhere matches would light. They're just not as reliable as the old Blue-Tips.
 
I always thought "blood grooves" were just fluff to make the knife look "proper" (smaller, modern knives, of course). I can't imagine any weight reduction benefit on, say a 119 if the fuller was made by pressure instead of grinding away metal.

My question here would be: "Why would someone want to dress a side of beef with one of these knives as opposed to using butcher knives"? Or even trim down a sirloin?

Like the bushcraft discussions elsewhere in the forum, I can see if you're out in the woods and need to use your knife for EVERYTHING, but if you're at home, why not use the right tool for a job?
(i.e. I don't whip out my pocketknife to prep a salad just because I CAN, when I have a butcher block full of more appropriate cutting instruments).
 
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The 70s catalog description reads:

"SPECIAL - Model #119 - A practical Bowie-styled knife with a 6" blade and blood groove. Beautifully balanced and shaped. Designed for heavy all-round knife work."

Back then, even Buck was advertising and calling it a blood groove. No wonder its "intended purpose" stuck for so many years. Today, there's no mention of the "blood groove" on Buck's website.
 
TAH said:
Yep, those Blue-Tips were the best. I'd still be interested to know if Diamond Strike-Anywhere matches would light. They're just not as reliable as the old Blue-Tips.
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In high school, i used to light them on my front teeth.
The ones I have now (just lit a few this morning for a fire) seem to take a little more effort...
 
rob, my field skinner is the best I've seen. There's not a good skinner found in a kitchen set. Then I've seen guys use a French Sabatier as a 'Quartering knife'. It is not! My point being, Kitchen sets sold today do not have a proper boning, breaking & skinning knife. So, guys use what they think will work. Many don't know the shape of the knives I just mentioned. Now, I know industrial supply salesmen who call on Meat Markets have these models in stock and I see them in meat cutters hands when I visit. But not in many kitchen sets. DM
 
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