BM710 vs Spyderco Military

Harry Callahan

Harry Callahan

Fresh outta warranty
Gold Member
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Mar 17, 2002
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My apologies for posting yet another brand "X" vs brand "Y" thread, but I'm really stuck here.

I recently came across enough spare cash to buy either a BM710 or a Syperdo Military but not both. I've long been planning to buy 710 , but just never really got around to it when the funds were present. It would be plainedged in M2 speed steel. I have no experience with Benchmade products, having only handled a few at gunshows.

Here's the rub. I also want a serrated Military but have read less than good things about the CPM440v steel. I have a Sharpmaker and can routinely obtain scary edges on my serrated Calypso Junior, but I've read that the 440v steel has different sharpening dynamics. (I'm after nothing less than scalpel sharp). I've researched these forums and found a huge following for this knife. Folks claim it's plenty strong for a linerlock. Also, I want to give Spyderco my business because they went way "above and beyond" on a customer service related issue in the past. I don't know when I'll be able to free up enough money to buy my next (high end) Spydie if I pass on this Military.

Whichever knife I choose will replace my Calypso Jr for EDC. The Calypso is a great knife but I'm after a bigger (and stronger) blade. I work in an environment where I use a knife a lot throughout the day, though I don't use them for prybars, etc. I guess I'm about as hard on a knife as a fellow can get without actually crossing the line into abuse.

How's about some input? Thanks in advance.
 
Got both. Like the Axis lock. However, it's not enough. The Military feels just so much better in my hand. Also; using the wrist flick method - the Military is even faster deployed than the Benchmade.

The overall finish is also better on the Mil. The ergos are IMO also better and the most important: It's flat ground blade makes it a much better cutter/slicer than the BM. I consider the BM being a tactical knife, whereas the Mil is an allround one (even tactical :) )

I will not get involved in the steel discussion. Both steels have pros and cons. However, in a tactical aspect - I'd prefer M2. Using the knife as an EDC - I'd choose CPM440V.
 
Not sure if this helps, but I *think* I read that the Military will get a change of steel in 2003 to S30V.

Sounds like you'd like to by a Spydie anyway....I've got a PE Millie 440V and I love it. Sharpening so far has been OK. There's been quite a few threads about it.
 
I have five Militarys and I love all of them. I have one 710 and that is the knife I almost always carry. The axis just does it for me, and I love the recurve blade. Don't have one in M2, but my Stryker has it and it is a great steel. I find that the black coating is not as big a drawback as I thought it would be.
 
Thanks for the replies folks, keep 'em comin'. I'm still digging around in the archives and just found this.
Originally posted by Sal Glesser (7-16-99)
Our tests indicate CPM-440V to [be] superior in edge retention to M2 by an average of more than 40%.Source thread
Click to expand...
Lots of good info and advice to be had around here. Tough decision...
 
Well, it's difficult for me to recommend a liner lock knife over a knife which has any other lock type (that is well done). But let me put that aside for the moment.

For me, the 710 wins clearly. Here's why:

- 710 is much more carryable. The handle on the Military is huge. Yes, it's thin, but it's very long.

- M-2 is a killer steel, you have to have this in your collection. Yes, there are things to be said about 440V also, including great wear resistance, but it's nowhere near as strong as M-2. Plus, if you don't already have a tool steel knife in your collection, don't your owe it to yourself to have at least one?

- 710 handles fit my hands better. Subjective.

- 710 recurved blade performance is just outrageous on slicing jobs. The plain-edge 710, properly sharped, can outcut even a fully-serrated endura on hard poly rope. That's a plain edge that outcuts serrations -- sound interesting? Note that the flat ground Military blade is also an awesome performer.

- Okay, I have to say it: axis blows any liner lock away.

And just to be fair, here's what I like about the military better:

- I love full flat ground blades, although the Axis's recurve makes up for any performance lost by being sabre ground.

- Military's leaf-shaped blade is an easier shape to sharpen than the Axis recurve. On the other hand, 440V can be tough to sharpen, and might make up for any loss.

- Spyderco hole -- no thumb stud can hope to compete with it.

A Military with a compression lock and S30V would be a hell of a knife. For me personally, the handle just doesn't work, so I wouldn't pick it up anyway. But in that configuration, it'd really start competing well against the Axis AFCK and 710, which today I both favor over the Military. I feel the 710 is the best 4"-blade EDC out there, period. The Axis AFCK gets the nod if the reason for carry is more defensive (better handle security and oval opening hole give it the nod; downside is bigger handle).

Joe
 
You make an excellent argument Joe.

I guess I'm just gonna have to get both, one now and one later (probably WAY later). So now this is just boiling down to which knife to get first.

Sheesh. :eek:
 
I don't own either so my opinion is purely from aesthetics, I handle allot of knives and have considered buying a Military as a EDC myself but when I pick up a 710 it just feels so much better. I don't concern myself with steels that much I figure Spyderco or Benchmade I'll trust to be good steel. So like I said just purely from the aesthetics/ergonomics side I'd buy the 710.
 
The 710 is a modern classic, IMHO. Mated with M2 steel, it's an awesome cutting machine. The Axis lock just adds to it's appeal locks up solidly every time and it will even compensate for wear over time. Chance of lock failure is amost nill.

The Military is no slouch, either. It's just that the 710 "rings my bell".:cool:
 
No contest. The 710HS is a much better knife, IMO. It's stronger in every respect (handle, blade, lock), and uses a much better steel for heavy use.
I guess I'm about as hard on a knife as a fellow can get without actually crossing the line into abuse.
Click to expand...
Then you DON'T want a Military. It looks like a good knife, but I know a few people that own/have owned them, and they haven't stood up to hard use (knives I've seen and held, not read about on the internet). When your Military has vertical blade play, and a bunch of chips out of the edge, your 710HS will be like new except for the scratches in the coating.
Downside: you break an Omega spring in your Axis, and it's gotta be sent back to the manufacturer for replacement. Gotta mention it since it happened to me, and I brought up the bad stuff I've seen on the Military:o
 
Personally, I would not buy a Military. I vastly prefer the Axis lock over a liner lock. Also, Spyderco obviously has the knowledge to produce lefty-friendly knives, but prefers not to in their higher end knives. I'm not going to spend more than $100 dollars on a knife when I can't even move the clip over to a more comfortable side.

On the other hand, I have a 710, and while it is a little large for normal carry (for me), it is a beautifully made knife, and 100% lefty friendly.
 
Here is Fred Perrin's review of the Military:

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/2292/Militaryrev.html

I have a military and a 710. I like both. I have a 710HS, but it doesn't get carried. I can't stand BT2.:barf: I would have a hard time deciding on which to get first. The liner lock on the Military is very, very well done. I would not let the linerlock scare me away from the Military. The serrated Military is like a pocket chainsaw. :eek:

The comfort thing is purely subjective. Ideally you could handle both first. These knives handle very differently. If you had an opportunity to handle both before you buy your decision would be much easier. Most don't have that luxury.

I don't think you would regret either.

Personally, if the Military is soon going to be upgraded I would wait for the upgrade and get the 710HS now.
 
I just did another search and it certainly does seem to be the rumor that S30V steel is in the works for the Military by spring '03 (rumors of a compression lock also). Sounds like the upgraded Spydie will be worth the wait.

Anyways, that seals it. I'm getting the 710HS. Thanks for the help everyone.
 
Especially for EDC, in my honest opinion they both are too big, especially in comparison with your current EDC – Calypso Jr.
A lot of valid points have mentioned, I’ll try to add my $0.02.
First of all I can’t consider Military liner lock as step back comparing with axis lock. Yes, liner lock is not ambidextrous and it is sensitive to handle twisting (Military one certainly). However Military lock is one of the best ever made, it displays adequate performance for me and I do not complain that it is less reliable than axis lock. I rely on common sense and usually do not load the blade in closing direction intentionally. For unintentional load Military liner lock works enough well for me. BTW, it doesn’t have tiny omega springs what could break. This is the reason why I certainly would equip myself with Military going into deep wilderness where I couldn’t replace these springs...

The Military handle is huge in length, it’s truth. However it is thinner and entire knife is lighter. Since dimensions are more important for ease to carry I must admit that Axis Lock is easier to carry on daily basis in urban environment. For outdoors carry I would choose rather Military for its lighter and slimmer package.

710 handle with double steel liners is inherently stronger, however Military handle is strong enough if you use it sensibly – for cutting.

Yes, CPM 440V is pretty “sharpening-resistant” steel and could make some problems for inexperienced user. Of course using right tools and techniques it is possible to sharpen, however 154CM or M-2 sharpening is definitely easier. Silly idea – there are Military knives still available with ATS-34 blades, the friend of mine recently got one from KnifeCenter if I remember well.

Recurved Axis Lock blade can cause some difficulties when sharpening as well. However if you are equipped with Sharpmaker this shouldn’t cause a problem.

CPM 440V is very rust resistant and M-2 isn’t at all. Of course it is protected by teflon coating but no one coating can protect your edge. If the knife should be used in especially aggressive environment I would go rather with stainless blade. In calmer environment the difference naturally is lesser.

I like Axis Lock cutting performance but fully flat ground Military blade with thin edge works better for me.

I like opening hole over thumb stud.

Military handle fits my hand better, especially in thumb placement area. Axis Lock handle forces somewhat unnatural position for my thumb.

So, I have both knives but if I should choose one of them it would be plain edged Military.
But I bet earlier or later you will buy both.
For the first buy try to handle them both, side by side and let the handling comfort make your decision.

Edited to add: I just received SPYDERCO dealer catalog for 2003 some days ago, the Military is listed and pictured there with CPMS 30V blade and liner lock, nothing mentioned about compression one.
 
Actually, Sergiusz pointed out two things I was going to. Then again, it's much more valid when coming from Sergiusz! The two point are:

1. Axis lock is great but Spyderco's locks are no slouches. I really think there is sometimes too much emphasis on the lock rather than the knife overall. Not to say that the 710 isn't a great knife. It is a great knife and you can't go wrong with it. It's one of my favorites, if not just my plain favorite. However, I've gotten over my obsession and preoccupation with the Axis lock and learned to appreciate other features in knives -- Benchmade or otherwise.

One also needs to keep some perspective here. If one is going to push a folder as good as a Spyderco to the point of lock failure, then you are obviously abusing that knife and maybe you should consider a fixed blade!

2. Tool steels are more exotic, but they are not without their own problems. As Sergiusz pointed out susceptibility to oxidation compared to stainless steels is a big disadvantage. If you are hell bent on the 710, you may want to consider 154CM blade for extensive outdoor use.

As much as I really like the 710 personally, I wouldn't write off the Military either. I would handle them both to see which is more to your liking overall. This to me is far more important than coming to the conclusion that the Axis lock discounts all the other features.
 
Response to the response :)

- While I think it's reasonable to point out that M-2 can rust, as a practical matter, has anyone had any problems with it? I've used my M-2 knife, barely even wiped the edge, and never seen it rust. I've wiped the blade on my shirt, no coating, put the knife away for months, and seen nothing but a tiny bit of easily-removed surface rust -- someone taking even the tiniest bit of reasonable care would not see any. In short, I think this is a non-issue.

- I agree that Spyderco's liner locks are good; in fact, they do most things very well. However, even Sal will admit that it's very difficult to consistently manufacture a really reliable liner lock, and I'm pretty sure he stated that this was one of the reasons they are looking at other lock types like the compression lock. In short, I agree that Spyderco's production values are excellent ... but if liner locks are hard even for them, to the point that it gets them to look at other locks, it is something to factor in. I do agree that generally speaking, it's a bad idea to zero in on one particular factor -- lock, steel, whatever -- and rule a knife out because of it. But, when it comes to advantages, I calls 'em like I sees 'em, and the axis lock is a very solid advantage IMO.

All of that said, there's no way I would criticize anyone for picking the Military. It's a solid choice.

Joe
 
Good points Joe.

I was just pointing out that there are advantages and disadvantages to various types of steels, and that there is currently no panacea. 154CM is just another option to go, and not a bad one at that IMO.

However, I'm like you in that I think it's always nice to buy a knife in a steel you do not own yet. That way, you have a range of knives to use in different situations.
 
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