bob kramer shun knives

Newbeliever said:
What ever you say Chef.

However, Shun's suck, ask any pro Chef. The number 1 selling japanese knife is Misono UX-10.
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Quoted for posterity.

Funny, but my son is a professional chef working at a 5 star resort. You may have heard of it before, The Greenbriar. All of the working chefs there use Shuns, and they buy them out of pocket, like any good chef must do. So I guess you're wrong about that too.

And btw, when replying to someone, please remember that the reply is "Chief", not Chef.
 
Newbeliever said:
I'll bet you dont even know why Quentin Tarrentino chose to use the name Hattori, do you? Only the "Hanzo" is made up.

Quentin is a certified Chef and uses Hattori Japanese knives in the his home kitchen. You guys know nothing about Japanese knives at all, This freaking funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D
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The second part of your post exposes your own ignorance of the question in the first part of your post. Hattori Hanzo (or even just Hattori if you must) is not a simple character created by Quentin Tarrantino. A man by that name existed and characters based upon him, and using the same name, were seen in a great many different early martial arts films of which Tarrantino was and is a big fan. Again, any internet search engine is your friend if you wish to refute what I've said.

I suggest you take Thomas W's advice.
 
Newbeliever said:
Shun knives are way to expensive for what you get and are not even considered to be real Japanese knives, they are a western knife with wa handle. If you will look at a site that is dedicated to proffesional kitchen knives you will find something way better. The damascus that is used is not real damascus but layered and causes food cells to rupture and that effects taste, it does nothing to the performance. A genuine damascus blade will set you back at least a few grand. Shun's are very frowned upon by proffesional Chefs because they are junk. For the same money you can custom order Tadatsuna's, Suisin's, Moritaka's, Asia etc. There several other places to buy great kitchen knives if you dont like that site. Pro Chefs demand high performance, while you may not be one, you can still do much better in term of quality and performance.
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They're made in Japan by a Japanese-owned company. Therefore they are Japanese knives. ;)

And "real damascus" is wootz steel. Wootz is a crucible-formed carbon steel containing small amounts of carbide-forming elements. When smelted and worked properly these elements cause the formation of carbide bands, resulting in a patterning intrinsic to the metal. Being a carbon steel, "real damascus" would actually be MUCH more likely to cause a noticeable change in the taste of your food, as it's much more reactionary with acids, etc.

Many pro chef's find the Shun line of knives more than suitable for their purposes.;)

Do a little more research before making such wildly over-the-top statements. It's better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you're a fool instead of opening your mouth and proving it. :foot:
 
Newbeliever said:
What ever you say Chef.

However, Shun's suck, ask any pro Chef. The number 1 selling japanese knife is Misono UX-10.
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You can call me "Chief" or "PG". I'm certainly no where near to being a Chef, nor do I suspect are you. For a "newbie" (if you actually are) you seem to be very opinionated and full of yourself. Too bad, there is quite a bit that you could actually learn here at BF and if you have the knowledge that you claim, share.

Saveur magazine also begs to differ from your opinion on the quality of Shun knives.

Link
 
I have Shun knives and they were recommended to me by multiple chefs including a good friend of mine who is a japanese trained, japanese sushi chef. They are fantastic knives we had the chance to use my friend's shun knives(the sushi chef) before we purchased them. My only complaint is that it is difficult to sharpen them. So we just send them back to Kershaw and the fix them up for us for free.

-alex
 
this has been most entertaining.

back to the OP....make sure the person using it atleast handels the knife, if they like it, they'll use it.
You'll find kitchen knives are a learning curve. Some people go from heavier/softer western style knives to harder/thinner japanese style knives. There is no right or wrong, just whats best for you;)
 
Newbeliever,

I have Japanese kitchen knives from Shun, Moritaka, Takeda, Aoki Hamono, and Masahiro and have also owned ones from Suisin, Matsui Hamono, Ichimonji Chuki, Ryusen, Aritsugu (Tokyo), Yoshikane, Hattori, and Nenohi. I've been coached on cutting skills from chefs trained in both the Tokyo/Tsujiki tradition and LeCordon Bleu tradition.

And you know what? That Shun Kaji 8" chef knife in my block cuts just as well as every chef knife I've had the pleasure of owning or using especially when used with Japanese cutting techniques.

Try finding another chef knife with a core of SG-2 steel for a similar price to a Shun Elite 10" chef knife or Shun Kaji 10" chef knife. First off, you won't. Second, try finding one from a company other than Shun that has a customer service center in the USA - oh wait, you won't. Try finding comparable knives at a similar price with consistently high levels of fit and finish - you've found MAC knives who used to be in Shun's current place.

The only thing going against Shun is they're commercially successful. And since we're talking knives and not indie college bands, that's not a negative.
 
PG5768 said:
Very funny, a Western style knife made with Swedish stain resistant steel.
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Swedish steel is very popular among Japanese toolmakers and knifemakers whether it's stainless goodness from Sandvik and Uddeholm or cast ingots. The iron ore in Sweden tends to be cleaner than from other countries.

Speaking of which....:D

If Thomas W could convince the head office to redo the Michel Bras like in unclad 14C28N, that'd be very kickass.
 
razorsdescent said:
My uncle has expressed great intrest in the bob kramer 6 inch utility knife from william-sonoma.


Has anybody had any experience with these knives? any good custom kitchen knife makers out there that could do a signifigantly better job?

Kitchen knives are not my speaciality so im hoping someone with much more experience will chime in.
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I think you are referring to the Shun Bob Kramer Meiji Utility Knife, I haven't gotten a chance to handle one, but they do look quite nice.
I've gotten the Shun Bob Kramer Wide 6" Chef's knife and The Shun Bob Kramer Santoku for my girlfriend, these are a more European styled line that are exclusive to Sur La Table. So far they have been amazing knives. The edge holding has been far beyond anything I've experienced with any of my other kitchen knives. We've had the 6" Chefs for a few months longer than the Santoku and I've really only done a few light passes on ceramic sticks once. Until we got the Santoku the 6" Chef's was the only knife in my kitchen that she would use. Overall fit and finish is great and the handles are very comfortable.

If you do get the knife for him without him trying it, Williams-Sonoma (and Sur La Table) has a pretty liberal return policy (the only real limitation is requiring the original purchase receipt or gift receipt to return a knife).
 
thombrogan said:
Speaking of which....:D

If Thomas W could convince the head office to redo the Michel Bras like in unclad 14C28N, that'd be very kickass.
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Kickass yes, sexy...hmmm, probably not so much.

I'll bring it up to Mr. Endo on Monday though. You want it thin, right?
 
kneedeep said:
I think you are referring to the Shun Bob Kramer Meiji Utility Knife, I haven't gotten a chance to handle one, but they do look quite nice.
I've gotten the Shun Bob Kramer Wide 6" Chef's knife and The Shun Bob Kramer Santoku for my girlfriend, these are a more European styled line that are exclusive to Sur La Table. So far they have been amazing knives. The edge holding has been far beyond anything I've experienced with any of my other kitchen knives. We've had the 6" Chefs for a few months longer than the Santoku and I've really only done a few light passes on ceramic sticks once. Until we got the Santoku the 6" Chef's was the only knife in my kitchen that she would use. Overall fit and finish is great and the handles are very comfortable.

If you do get the knife for him without him trying it, Williams-Sonoma (and Sur La Table) has a pretty liberal return policy (the only real limitation is requiring the original purchase receipt or gift receipt to return a knife).
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Thanks for getting this back on topic kneedeep. Its good to hear from someone who's actually used them.

Another plus for the Shuns is the Customer Service and Warranty. If there ever is a problem you'll be taken very good care of.
 
Interesting. My buddy works at The Golden Door resort. He dislikes Shun quite strongly, but I think it's more personal preference. Most of his cutlery is custom from a Japanese maker that he has a close relationship with. It's my understanding that he uses Sabatier carbon steel knives for his "beater" knives because of how tough they are and how easy they are to sharpen up for more "chores".

For amateurs, I fully expect Shun to exceed their expectations.
 
Newbeliever. You need to start playing nice. Stop the insults and nasty comments or you will get infracted. SShepard happens to know more about Japanese steel than ANY one I know and makes Kitchen knives for a living and has been to Japan plenty of time. So play nice..consider this friendly advice.
 
Newbeliever said:
Shun knives are way to expensive for what you get and are not even considered to be real Japanese knives, they are a western knife with wa handle. If you will look at a site that is dedicated to proffesional kitchen knives you will find something way better. The damascus that is used is not real damascus but layered and causes food cells to rupture and that effects taste, it does nothing to the performance. A genuine damascus blade will set you back at least a few grand. Shun's are very frowned upon by proffesional Chefs because they are junk. For the same money you can custom order Tadatsuna's, Suisin's, Moritaka's, Asia etc. There several other places to buy great kitchen knives if you dont like that site. Pro Chefs demand high performance, while you may not be one, you can still do much better in term of quality and performance.
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Actually, it cladded or "suminagashi". According to the sites it's a nickle and stainless, which just looks pretty(personal taste) and might give some resistance from corrosion .
Damascus, or any steel will not cause the food cells to "rupture" as you put it-- a dull knife and bad technique does. What your talking about it actually crushing the food. Chives are especially prone to that of you dont use a very sharp knife and have the proper skills.
Genuine damascus costing a few thousand?? Well, lets compare apples to apples here:
http://korin.com/Ittosai-Hongasumi-Wa-Gyutou?sc=7&category=17244

japanese damascus cladded gyuto from ittosai- $672.80

hardly a few grand as you stated.


I'm interested where your getting your misinformation from
 
kneedeep said:
I think you are referring to the Shun Bob Kramer Meiji Utility Knife, I haven't gotten a chance to handle one, but they do look quite nice.
I've gotten the Shun Bob Kramer Wide 6" Chef's knife and The Shun Bob Kramer Santoku for my girlfriend, these are a more European styled line that are exclusive to Sur La Table. So far they have been amazing knives. The edge holding has been far beyond anything I've experienced with any of my other kitchen knives. We've had the 6" Chefs for a few months longer than the Santoku and I've really only done a few light passes on ceramic sticks once. Until we got the Santoku the 6" Chef's was the only knife in my kitchen that she would use. Overall fit and finish is great and the handles are very comfortable.

If you do get the knife for him without him trying it, Williams-Sonoma (and Sur La Table) has a pretty liberal return policy (the only real limitation is requiring the original purchase receipt or gift receipt to return a knife).
Click to expand...

Thank you this is exactly the info i was looking for, and thank you to everyone who made a constructive post. you are indeed correct that i am interested in the meiji knife from williams-sonoma, my uncle prefers the lines and relativley short length of the meiji to the larger kitchen knives. I've been to the local williams-sonoma and they didnt have any of the kramer knives. I didnt mean to imply earlier in the post that i was so ignorant of kitchen cutlery that i couldnt tell an 8 inch chefs from a 7 inch santoku. My uncle uses primarily shun kitchen knives and prefers the western style knives its just that the kramer is almost double most other shun knives. Its going to be a gift to a man that has supported me throughout my life and i want it to be something that he will find special and enjoy using on a regular basis.


To Newbeliever: ????? I dont really know what to say plenty of professional chefs use shun kitchen knives every day. I must admit i dont understand how you believe that only traditional japanese knives are truly suitable for fine food (which correct me if im wrong is part of your dislike for shun) i think fine food is mainly about fresh ingredients and skilled preperation aside from the knife being sharp i dont think it matters what knife you are using, ive cooked many an enjoyable meal with a combat knife simply because its what i had on hand. I'm not a world class chef by any means but it seems to me that kitchen knives are alot like any other professionals tools wether it be a photographer or a golfer or a chef after a certain point the ratio from price to performance increases considerably the tools of the trade.

Also if you dont calm down you may well find yourself banned. this is a very polite and quiet community of people that want to discuss there love of high end cutlery with others that will either share the same interests or at least understand what they are talking about. the key word there is community we are all bonded together in our love for cutlery so please quit the outlandish comments it does no one any good.
 
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