Body armor for sword sparring

Back in the early 80's I had a group in highschool that I started as an alternative to soccer or basketball. We dressed in limited armor and beat each other senseless with wooden bokens, dulled steel swords, and makeshift axes made of plywood. I seldom used armor, preferring the increased mobility over the other members who wore some padding or makeshift armor.

When I heard about the SCA, I went to try out and they wouldn't let me participate unless I wore armor. My father owned a business that had a lot of the blue 55gal plastic drums kicking around. I found that if you make cardboard patterns for a roman muscle-plate style cuirass breast-plate, you could cut the shapes out of the 55 gal drums. Then, using a blow torch and a bucket of cold water with a towel, we shaped the pieces to match the 3d shapes we needed to fit our bodies. The towel and cold water was used to set the shape once the heated plastic was bent the way we wanted.

We cut shoulder cups out of the same material, and hung 3" wide strips of the plastic from the bottom of the cuirass to protect our thighs. Once we lined the pieces with foam rubber using spray adhesive, and painted the armour black, we had a pretty decent looking set of armor that you could not cut thru with a sword. Direct blows to the chest with a baseball bat set you back a bit, but didn't hurt. The only thing that would consistently penetrate the armor was a tomahawk or pointed war-hammer.

We were only in our mid-teens, so we didn't put a ton of detail into the stuff, but it was a real hit at the SCA events and allowed us to use real blades for our own events where the rules were no cut or thrusts to the head, and last man standing wins.

I don't have pictures. Sorry. The cuirass armor sets are long-gone now. Given to a friend I haven't heard from in twenty three years. I would strongly encourage you to give the plastic drums a try. If you are patient, and made a rough mannequin mold to drape the pieces over so you could get better conformity to a specific shape, you could pretty easily make an excellent and extremely serviceable suit of plastic armor that will protect from real blades with sharp edges.

Good luck.
Tombo 65
 
I've seen a lot of HEMA and Chinese sword art folks use modern sport Escrima gear. When I did SCA heavy list a lot of guys were making "lorica plastica" from juice barrels-it was light and worked quite well. (I also had a friend who built some late Japanese style armor from .125 kydex, which was glorious)
 
I've seen a lot of HEMA and Chinese sword art folks use modern sport Escrima gear. When I did SCA heavy list a lot of guys were making "lorica plastica" from juice barrels-it was light and worked quite well. (I also had a friend who built some late Japanese style armor from .125 kydex, which was glorious)

Nice JW, I hadn't seen the escrima gear yet. I like the tunic's little eccentricities in the cuffs.

The initial requirements (or driving philosophy) for the Øye armor is that the vest should be able to be worn beneath a hoodie or coat without drawing much attention to itself. It will be sleek, form-fitting and fine, and made to protect against pretty much anything but a bullet. Then, add-on parts such as shoulders and gloves will come later, making the complete set useable for sparring. It will be for not only sparring but for real protection! In this case the plastic won't do; these armor sets are to be made from leather and titanium alloy. :)

I wish you had a photo of the kydex Japanese-styled armor.
 
What would be cool if the leather frame acts like a plate carrier and the titanium can be inserted or taken out of it.
This would allow easier fixes and maintenance or up and downgrading the armor depending on personal requirements like protection and weight.

Also what do you think of holes in the plates and leather for enhanced airflow? The titanium is probably stiff and as long as the holes are smaller than the smallest poky thing you are protecting from it shouldn't decrease it's function.
 
What would be cool if the leather frame acts like a plate carrier and the titanium can be inserted or taken out of it.
This would allow easier fixes and maintenance or up and downgrading the armor depending on personal requirements like protection and weight.

Also what do you think of holes in the plates and leather for enhanced airflow? The titanium is probably stiff and as long as the holes are smaller than the smallest poky thing you are protecting from it shouldn't decrease it's function.

The construction of the armor layers will be novel, and should be useable with most armor designs. We haven't tested it yet and ain't gonna post up any pics till we do! :D
 
What would be cool if the leather frame acts like a plate carrier and the titanium can be inserted or taken out of it.
This would allow easier fixes and maintenance or up and downgrading the armor depending on personal requirements like protection and weight.

Also what do you think of holes in the plates and leather for enhanced airflow? The titanium is probably stiff and as long as the holes are smaller than the smallest poky thing you are protecting from it shouldn't decrease it's function.
The first part of this description is (essentially) what most modern body armor is.
 

Thanks for the link, gadunz. I've inquired to CAS Iberia about the titanium alloy used in the armor just for clarification, but I think I already know the answer: It's made in India, likely mystery ti. I'm also interested if the rivets are ti or steel. Might be a decent outer layer for some basic bashing, but I wouldn't trust it to stop a serious thrust. ;)

As a side note, I wish folks out there in internet land would quit comparing titanium to aluminum. They're nothing like each other than being relatively light compared to iron. Titanium is also drastically different than steel. "...all of the weight advantages of aluminum with the strength of steel..."

Weight of a cubic foot of pure titanium: 280.93 lbs

Weight of a cubic foot of pure aluminum: 168.49 lbs

Weight of a cubic foot of steel: 493.18 lbs

http://www.aqua-calc.com/calculate/volume-to-weight

Of course the weight of alloys varies.



So mecha, what kind of sparring are we talking about?

That's a bit of a complicated question. I suppose the type of sparring where you and people you trust practice with your hand-held weapons (edged or not), practice your skills and learn to trust your armor and yourself. Perhaps in a competitive SCA/HEMA capacity. And also as something you reach for when your mild-mannered city descends into a more chaotic state. :D
 
Thanks for the link, gadunz. I've inquired to CAS Iberia about the titanium alloy used in the armor just for clarification, but I think I already know the answer: ...

As a side note, I wish folks out there in internet land would quit comparing titanium to aluminum. They're nothing like each other than being relatively light compared to iron. Titanium is also drastically different than steel. "...all of the weight advantages of aluminum with the strength of steel..."

....
That's a bit of a complicated question. I suppose the type of sparring where you and people you trust practice with your hand-held weapons (edged or not), practice your skills and learn to trust your armor and yourself. Perhaps in a competitive SCA/HEMA capacity. And also as something you reach for when your mild-mannered city descends into a more chaotic state. :D
"Thanks fo the !Links!" did I spot a pun there?

The titanium comparison took me for a ride too back in the day before Internet and the sales person probably believed it too that a titanium kitchen blade has to be superior in every way. But there's been some progress. Raw Aluminum is also extremely weak it's hard to believe that the Duraluminum alloy with copper is based on the same metal.

Still quite fond of titanium wherever it makes sense. Armor certainly sounds like it. Heard some tanks use it and probably more would if it weren't for the costs.
Mecha, I like your work and in particular that Zweihänder! I'm excited about your armor especially for Hema purposes. By what time would you show us some pictures? I want to avoid wasting time to improvise my own and then end up buying yours anyways :-p Current solutions are either to weak or too expensive and usually not fitting right I'm sure there's a big market for your armor.
Can't wait!
:-)
 
"Thanks fo the !Links!" did I spot a pun there?

The titanium comparison took me for a ride too back in the day before Internet and the sales person probably believed it too that a titanium kitchen blade has to be superior in every way. But there's been some progress. Raw Aluminum is also extremely weak it's hard to believe that the Duraluminum alloy with copper is based on the same metal.

Still quite fond of titanium wherever it makes sense. Armor certainly sounds like it. Heard some tanks use it and probably more would if it weren't for the costs.
Mecha, I like your work and in particular that Zweihänder! I'm excited about your armor especially for Hema purposes. By what time would you show us some pictures? I want to avoid wasting time to improvise my own and then end up buying yours anyways :-p Current solutions are either to weak or too expensive and usually not fitting right I'm sure there's a big market for your armor.
Can't wait!
:-)

Bwahaha! Pun not intended!

For the record, I'm not saying anything bad about CAS Iberia in regards to the titanium ringmail armor. The fellow on the phone was helpful, and had "never had anyone ask [about the alloy of titanium] before," and is trying to find out what it is. They're just selling the product, which is from a German company, that has the mail made in India, of rings that are quite possibly mass-produced in China. When it comes to titanium, I like to know the details. I can damn near guarantee that the kitchen knife was not made of any alloy of titanium at all! Using the word to juice up a (usually weak) non-ti product is one of the main reasons that titanium got a dubious reputation in some circles.

Thanks Jenz. I agree with you 100% that armor is one of the absolute best uses for ti alloy in a martial capacity. I hope to post more details and photos as soon as possible, but it's gonna be a bit, and then there will be refinement. As for fitting right, Øye is an excellent seamstress who knows how to make a garment fit properly. Making this stuff not cumbersome is one of the main goals of the project.

Post some pics of your armor project if/when you start your own! :D
 
I didnt hear you say anything bad about them. It might just not be the best titanium for the job but let's see what they say it is and if if it's not the best it's still cool.

The kitchen knife was a blue anodized titanium blade with some ovals or circles engraved into it.
It was from Boker.
Google only finds pictures at an auction side and some other knife forum. No idea if Im allowed to post them here.

Now my own armor project, sure, I can post the first pictures next week. This weekend kids and me are finishing the vacuum forming table and next week the 4mm ABS sheets should arrive. I already got some thin steel I want to sandwich in there. Maybe it's not even required. Will have to see about weight and how much it protects or doesn't :-)
The plastic material I have at home gets penetrated about 4mm with a knife rammed into it with two hands and all the force I can muster and lying on the ground with no way for it to move backwards kind of a worst case scenario. Might also shoot a few arrows at it for more fun.
Once I get something interesting I'll open a thread.
 
I didnt hear you say anything bad about them. It might just not be the best titanium for the job but let's see what they say it is and if if it's not the best it's still cool.

The kitchen knife was a blue anodized titanium blade with some ovals or circles engraved into it.
It was from Boker.
Google only finds pictures at an auction side and some other knife forum. No idea if Im allowed to post them here.

Now my own armor project, sure, I can post the first pictures next week. This weekend kids and me are finishing the vacuum forming table and next week the 4mm ABS sheets should arrive. I already got some thin steel I want to sandwich in there. Maybe it's not even required. Will have to see about weight and how much it protects or doesn't :-)
The plastic material I have at home gets penetrated about 4mm with a knife rammed into it with two hands and all the force I can muster and lying on the ground with no way for it to move backwards kind of a worst case scenario. Might also shoot a few arrows at it for more fun.
Once I get something interesting I'll open a thread.

Yep, the CAS Iberia clarification was directed toward the casual forum reader, I don't want them to get the wrong impression. :]

Your armor project sounds great, yes post pics! Arrows sound like a good test. For the Øye armor, we'll be trying to punch through it with a spear, pike or halberd point, large sharp steel sword, etc. Plus flying rocks, bats, shanks, everything.

As for that knife, all I can see is that it's supposed to be a "sintered" titanium alloy, which is unspecified, and may or may not have something to do with ceramics.

It IS possible to get a knife with an actual titanium alloy blade for $50, most notably with the cheap diving knives. I hate these, as the blades perform like tough pot metal, and make ti blades look bad. "Coated," "vapor deposition," "bonded," all these words mean is that it's not really titanium! >;[
 
If it's cheap it's not going to be much. Pure Ti is very soft , nothing like " Mecha Ti" ! There are many thing s called Ti but are Al with a Ti color !
 
chainmail and kevlar are probably most resistant to stabbing...but then, there's the REVERSE approach - AIKIDO! control the 'head of the snake' and you control the snake...jzs
 
There is a guy that makes chain maille with stainless steel lock washers !! He says it works very well !!
 
There is a guy that makes chain maille with stainless steel lock washers !! He says it works very well !!

I wonder what gage. Is he then welding the links? Lock washers seem much heavier than the standard links that are riveted.
 
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