Boker Plus Kressler Subhilt vs CS Black Bear Classic

they are not saying it is unique because it is a sub-hilt they say it is unique because it is a gesamtkunstwerk which transalates to total work of art and what is really unique about it is that it is integral one piece
 
First, you have to realize that both of these knives are copies. They are versions of a Bob Loveless design, and both makers use a different variation on the manufacture to suit their needs/plans.

The Loveless design is call the Big Bear. An original will run you somewhere in excess of $10,000 today, which is part of the reason there are makers who provide less expensive copies.

Lynn Tompson and Cold Steel had a lot of knives made in Japan, where Bob was extremely well regarded (more so than even here in the USA). It was a natural that they would produce a knife to this pattern.

Deitmar Kressler is arguably the foremost maker of integral knives to Bobs patterns. An original from his shop will run $4,000+ depending on the custom touches. Expect to wait 3-4 years.

Boker (like most of the major manufacturers) has worked with some of the more respected names in the business to provide knives that are (to them) higher end, but at a considerably reduced price from what the original would cost. Think of it as a low priced user or collectable for the enthusiast who can't justify an original.

I would suggest that before you decide to purchase that you look at some of the other makers who do this pattern. Your money may be wiser spent on a true custom instead of a production piece, and you can find them for the same price range.
 
How would you compare the two steels of those knives, 440C versus VG1 San Mai III?

Thanks,

BabyJWuu
 
The main question should be 440C vs VG-1. Both are very similar, and Cold Steel admits on their website that other stainless alloys have advantages over VG-1, but they use it because they felt it was the best compromise. Obviously Boker feels that, for their purposes 440C is the better steel.

What this breaks down to is what they feel is best to work with, and offers the best overall product, while allowing them to profit.

The simple fact is, as a consumer, you're not going to be able to tell the difference. If you buy either one, and then use it to the point of having to sharpen it half a dozen times you will be in such a minority that it's statistically non-existant.
 
I have the Cold Steel version and I am disappointed with the fit and finish on it. If I compare it to some Bokers that I have I'm pretty sure that their version is better...
 
The real world price on the CS will be far less than that..... ;)

On the one hand I prefer the looks of the Cold Steel. Its an 8,5 inch blade as opposed to 7,5 on the Boker.

As to the steels, I have a little CS fixed blade called the K4 made from VG-1 that I use in the kitchen a LOT and I am impressed with it. Bear in mind this particular knife is ground very thin.

As for the Boker, I have no experience with their 440C. Bear in mind that is an integral knife, so its all one piece of steel. Pretty impressive at that price point!
 
Treg said:
Boker $259.00 vs CS $499.00 retail....
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Hi, yes I noticed that point. However, the CS does have a much better sheath, the Boker's is so cheap I would have to hire someone to make a new Kydex sheath!

Cordially,

BabyJWuu
 
I got my CS for $340.00 last year and it came with a nice kydex sheath but at that price I would of prefered a leather one...
 
eisman said:
The main question should be 440C vs VG-1. Both are very similar, and Cold Steel admits on their website that other stainless alloys have advantages over VG-1, but they use it because they felt it was the best compromise. Obviously Boker feels that, for their purposes 440C is the better steel.

What this breaks down to is what they feel is best to work with, and offers the best overall product, while allowing them to profit.

The simple fact is, as a consumer, you're not going to be able to tell the difference. If you buy either one, and then use it to the point of having to sharpen it half a dozen times you will be in such a minority that it's statistically non-existant.
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Really? Why?

Saying that VG1 is the only steel going on in a laminated steel is like saying the Fallkniven laminates are simply VG10...absolutely wrong information right there. :thumbdn:

The harder steel is sandwiched between two more forgiving steels to the get optimum steel effect where it belongs, hardness for cutting/edge retention while the softer steels allow for better corrosion resistance and more flexibility.

BabyJ-440C as done by Boker is a fine, steel choice, I believe they chose it for this knife for two reasons, when polished it is a showstopper, luster is beautiful and it is tough stuff, see Entrek knives for the ugly, more tactical versions.
 
I like 440C when done by Boker but I much prefer the SM3 by Cold Steel. SM3 behaves differently from VG-1, even if the SM3 core is made of VG-1
I like the subhilt model and own a Cold Steel OSS, which is a cheap version of their Black Bear Classic. I'd love to own the BBC, and the Boker (another brand I'm a fan of) looks beautiful too.
 
I haven't handled the CS Black Bear Classic, but I did check out the Kressler Subhilt prototype at the SHOT Show in Vegas and it's a beast! There's a discussion of the knife at the Boker subforum. Those who are interested can keep up with it here

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=750443

Street prices should run in the $150 to $175 range. For fans of the Loveless Big Bear design, I'd consider the Kressler Subhilt a best buy! :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
Zombie Zeke said:
Really? Why?

Saying that VG1 is the only steel going on in a laminated steel is like saying the Fallkniven laminates are simply VG10...absolutely wrong information right there. :thumbdn:

The harder steel is sandwiched between two more forgiving steels to the get optimum steel effect where it belongs, hardness for cutting/edge retention while the softer steels allow for better corrosion resistance and more flexibility.

BabyJ-440C as done by Boker is a fine, steel choice, I believe they chose it for this knife for two reasons, when polished it is a showstopper, luster is beautiful and it is tough stuff, see Entrek knives for the ugly, more tactical versions.
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ZZ are you now thinking of the following two fighters to add to your collection?

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=BO02BO190

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=BO02BO180

Both are one piece Bokers in 440C! Crap sheaths though:grumpy:

Cordially,

BabyJWuu
 
Here is where you can learn more on Steel Composition...

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelchart.php

and here

http://www.knifeart.com/steelfaqbyjo.html

the rest of it comes down to aesthetics, I think if you have medium hands the Entrek Silhouette is as good as it gets for subhilts, then there is the Paragon version of Larry Harley's customs if you can find one, and the guy that has it doesn't think it's a Busse price tagged item.
 
bld522 said:
I haven't handled the CS Black Bear Classic, but I did check out the Kressler Subhilt prototype at the SHOT Show in Vegas and it's a beast!
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Hi, is the Kressler made from .25-inch stock?:thumbup: It does not state on the description of their website!

Thank you,

BabyJWuu
 
Good question. Try the Boker subforum to get it straight from the horses mouth, great bunch a guys down there!
 
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