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Bombproof Rain Gear_what do you recommend?
- Thread starter Quirt
- Start date
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- Jan 1, 2006
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- 1,649
Ok, I asked before. Maybe this time.
What do you recommend?
All the Arcteryx I've seen is made in Canada, but it's all been the LEAF stuff.
I'm curious to here Leghogs thoughts on how he appoaches this but while I've not served in the military, he's described my experience with top end waterproof/breathable jackets.
With year round backpacking and ski touring, I can get 2-4 years out a jacket before it delaminates at the shoulders or at the waist from the hip belts. This includes both top end TNF and Patagonia models and includes both laminate and PU coating fabrics.
I get the same amount of wear out my cheap Kleenex weight Marmot Precips.
My conclusion after decades of experience is that I consider these jackets to have a short lifespan. I buy a good warranty and use it.
I select fabric weight based on a bunch of factors but I notice that my heavy Patsgonia Torre (old but still serviceable after a repair) while I use (and replace) my Precips constantly.
If you bushwack through nasty brush or climb abrasive rocks, a tougher fabric makes sense despite the weight penalty. But I would not expect any greater service life out of the W/B barrier from any particular brand including Arcteryx. It's not like they hold any secret magic process of technology.
With year round backpacking and ski touring, I can get 2-4 years out a jacket before it delaminates at the shoulders or at the waist from the hip belts. This includes both top end TNF and Patagonia models and includes both laminate and PU coating fabrics.
I get the same amount of wear out my cheap Kleenex weight Marmot Precips.
My conclusion after decades of experience is that I consider these jackets to have a short lifespan. I buy a good warranty and use it.
I select fabric weight based on a bunch of factors but I notice that my heavy Patsgonia Torre (old but still serviceable after a repair) while I use (and replace) my Precips constantly.
If you bushwack through nasty brush or climb abrasive rocks, a tougher fabric makes sense despite the weight penalty. But I would not expect any greater service life out of the W/B barrier from any particular brand including Arcteryx. It's not like they hold any secret magic process of technology.
pinnah pretty much nailed it. Expect raingear to have a definitive life span beyond which you'll truly need to replace it regardless of how much you paid for it. You can extend its lifespan by keeping it clean and storing it dry and out of UV. Wash it when needed on a gentle cycle with nikwax are similar product and hang it to dry. That said, I'd stick with any number of laminates, some of which have been mentioned in this thread. We must each make our own decision.
EricV
Basic Member
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Outdoor Research is a great brand with a killer warranty that usually comes in at a reasonable price. The Foray jacket would be my recommendation if you're not looking to spend a ton of money and aren't spending a lot of time scrambling over rocks. Lots of old jackets just need a fresh coat of DWR to help them out too, so if you find an old Gore-tex jacket and its soaking into the fabric just wash and respray. My dad's 15 year old TNF guide jacket is just as water proof as my two year old Arteryx Beta AR, and I expect I'll get at least 15 years out of mine with proper care.
Edited to add: My last REI brand Gore jacket made it 8 years before I gave it to a friend in need last Fall, the seam tape wasn't holding great but with some gear-aid and DWR its been serving its new owner fine.
Edited to add: My last REI brand Gore jacket made it 8 years before I gave it to a friend in need last Fall, the seam tape wasn't holding great but with some gear-aid and DWR its been serving its new owner fine.
Unless we are talking about the rubbery waterproof jackets. Those things last and last.
Use that in the bush and you'll be soaked through from the inside (in sweat) with just about any activity.
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2006
- Messages
- 4,012
I'm not convinced non-breathable is the way ahead.
Unless the membrane is actually damaged the Gore [eVent] membrane is fantastic. People get issues because they do dipshit stuff, thinking mere possession is some sort of magic wand, and it isn't. You can't do stuff that would make you saturate a stand alone string vest in sweat and then expect a coat to be able to cope with that and magically fix it. Likewise, if you are holding your arms up taking photos, using walking poles, using your weapon or whatnot, water can migrate down the sleeves. It's amazing that one has to point that out to people, but often one does. They blame the Gore membrane but the fact is they are either using the right jacket inappropriately or simply have the wrong garment. There are loads of Gore jackets for sailing that have neoprene skirts at the waist and cuffs to stop that kind of ingress, [rather like snow skirts on ski jackets]. Then there is just plain filth cludging up the membrane. If you stay on top of that there is no reason for the membrane to struggle.
By far the most common thing I've seen is simply the wetting out of the fabric. Once the DWR is overcome and the water doesn't bead up on the jacket you suffocate it with a slick film of water. Essentially, you've taken your £500 jacket and temporarily turned it into a good old boil in the bag non-breathable oilskin of yesteryear. Of course, then people complain that it leaks.
Whilst I recognise that deficiency of all breathable fabrics lets consider exactly what that means. At it's weakest point, because it is being suffocated, the breathable fabric can only behave like a non-breathable fabric. Even here, where it can rain enough to make up a Noah story up on the moors over the course of a week, that is very unlikely to be the constant state the jacket is in. Those points are more like a series of daily nadir punctuations. Of course in your non-breathable garment there are no such nadirs. You start at the bottom of the bucket and there you stay. The weather eases off to a mild persistent drizzle that your Gore would shrug off and still breath happily, and your still fermenting in your own juice like a discarded cling-filmed sandwich. Stick a wool jumper under that and you're only an accident of birth away from being a wingless walking bipedal yeast infection.
I do have a non-beathable garment I still use rather a lot, and I don't anticipate parting with it 'cos it has a perfect niche. Essentially, it is a poncho with arms made from 4oz yd² rubberised nylon. It's exactly the same material material used in the better issued garments at activity courses. It's 3* the price of the standard 2oz yd² PU jackets and trousers a lot of those venues provide, but is way better as a waterproof and lives a lot longer. It's still dirt cheap. I often use it with the tredder. I don't cycle in it, I use softshells or eVent for that. I use it when the weather makes it hard to knock up a Camberwell Carrot kneel down and use myself as a tent frame and build the brute inside, wind free and dry. That said, you don't want to be in it for long 'cos the condensation builds up. Being static in that garment [bearing in mind it is a poncho with arms so open and baggy], can over the course of a couple of hours really remind you of how grim the bad old days were. And that's just sitting there burning a sugar cube of energy an hour. I wince at the thought of trousers encapsulating your clutter in it, and carrying load up hill on a mild day.
3 routes spring to mind to me if you want waterpoof and tough, and I've tried 2.5 of them. Weight and bulk is going to be unpleasant, but something has to give.
1] On the cheap. Austrian military surplus. They've got three membrane jackets with tough outers. One is like a synthetic M65 jacket with a liner. Pretty darn tough compared to high street Gore Tex. I don't know how good the M65 one is but the one with the huge fixed hood and the Alpine one I've had and they were great for thrashing through the woods beating pheasant. Not ideal, but a tough cheap beater in olive green.
2] What I progressed to after the above for that same type of thing was Harkila. I don't do that stuff now so the bulk and weight is not for me. For shooting, bird watching, bit of trout fishing, brilliant. If I were doing that stuff now the Harkila Pro Hunter X would be the one at the top of my stack. It looks even better than the one I had, so I think it would take a lot to dislodge me from that. I strongly urge you to look up as much as you can about that.
3] Paramo would be my my choice if I were to go membrane free. I've mentioned here before that I used to get invited to the Paramo facility every year to see what they were up to. Their stuff is good kit. Of special note is one of the jackets they had pinned up to a board with thumbtacks riddled through it like a map of Leeds mosques. Take it down and it still didn't leak. Paramo has a really strong fan base here, and deservedly do. About the only thing it ever gets got at for is bulk and weight, and that is very fair. That's why I'm using eVent now [along with Montane, Buffalo, and softshells]. True, is is possible to eventually overwhelm a Paramo garment with water, although that never happened to me. So it's not going to be like Gore Tex that is so darn waterproof they now make waders from it, but it's bloody good. For a rough gist; consider everything good you've ever heard about Ventile clothing for toughness, and add Nikwax and steroids and you're on the right track.
My money would be on the Harkila Pro Hunter X http://harkila.com/products/jackets/pro-hunter-x-jacket
Unless the membrane is actually damaged the Gore [eVent] membrane is fantastic. People get issues because they do dipshit stuff, thinking mere possession is some sort of magic wand, and it isn't. You can't do stuff that would make you saturate a stand alone string vest in sweat and then expect a coat to be able to cope with that and magically fix it. Likewise, if you are holding your arms up taking photos, using walking poles, using your weapon or whatnot, water can migrate down the sleeves. It's amazing that one has to point that out to people, but often one does. They blame the Gore membrane but the fact is they are either using the right jacket inappropriately or simply have the wrong garment. There are loads of Gore jackets for sailing that have neoprene skirts at the waist and cuffs to stop that kind of ingress, [rather like snow skirts on ski jackets]. Then there is just plain filth cludging up the membrane. If you stay on top of that there is no reason for the membrane to struggle.
By far the most common thing I've seen is simply the wetting out of the fabric. Once the DWR is overcome and the water doesn't bead up on the jacket you suffocate it with a slick film of water. Essentially, you've taken your £500 jacket and temporarily turned it into a good old boil in the bag non-breathable oilskin of yesteryear. Of course, then people complain that it leaks.
Whilst I recognise that deficiency of all breathable fabrics lets consider exactly what that means. At it's weakest point, because it is being suffocated, the breathable fabric can only behave like a non-breathable fabric. Even here, where it can rain enough to make up a Noah story up on the moors over the course of a week, that is very unlikely to be the constant state the jacket is in. Those points are more like a series of daily nadir punctuations. Of course in your non-breathable garment there are no such nadirs. You start at the bottom of the bucket and there you stay. The weather eases off to a mild persistent drizzle that your Gore would shrug off and still breath happily, and your still fermenting in your own juice like a discarded cling-filmed sandwich. Stick a wool jumper under that and you're only an accident of birth away from being a wingless walking bipedal yeast infection.
I do have a non-beathable garment I still use rather a lot, and I don't anticipate parting with it 'cos it has a perfect niche. Essentially, it is a poncho with arms made from 4oz yd² rubberised nylon. It's exactly the same material material used in the better issued garments at activity courses. It's 3* the price of the standard 2oz yd² PU jackets and trousers a lot of those venues provide, but is way better as a waterproof and lives a lot longer. It's still dirt cheap. I often use it with the tredder. I don't cycle in it, I use softshells or eVent for that. I use it when the weather makes it hard to knock up a Camberwell Carrot kneel down and use myself as a tent frame and build the brute inside, wind free and dry. That said, you don't want to be in it for long 'cos the condensation builds up. Being static in that garment [bearing in mind it is a poncho with arms so open and baggy], can over the course of a couple of hours really remind you of how grim the bad old days were. And that's just sitting there burning a sugar cube of energy an hour. I wince at the thought of trousers encapsulating your clutter in it, and carrying load up hill on a mild day.
3 routes spring to mind to me if you want waterpoof and tough, and I've tried 2.5 of them. Weight and bulk is going to be unpleasant, but something has to give.
1] On the cheap. Austrian military surplus. They've got three membrane jackets with tough outers. One is like a synthetic M65 jacket with a liner. Pretty darn tough compared to high street Gore Tex. I don't know how good the M65 one is but the one with the huge fixed hood and the Alpine one I've had and they were great for thrashing through the woods beating pheasant. Not ideal, but a tough cheap beater in olive green.
2] What I progressed to after the above for that same type of thing was Harkila. I don't do that stuff now so the bulk and weight is not for me. For shooting, bird watching, bit of trout fishing, brilliant. If I were doing that stuff now the Harkila Pro Hunter X would be the one at the top of my stack. It looks even better than the one I had, so I think it would take a lot to dislodge me from that. I strongly urge you to look up as much as you can about that.
3] Paramo would be my my choice if I were to go membrane free. I've mentioned here before that I used to get invited to the Paramo facility every year to see what they were up to. Their stuff is good kit. Of special note is one of the jackets they had pinned up to a board with thumbtacks riddled through it like a map of Leeds mosques. Take it down and it still didn't leak. Paramo has a really strong fan base here, and deservedly do. About the only thing it ever gets got at for is bulk and weight, and that is very fair. That's why I'm using eVent now [along with Montane, Buffalo, and softshells]. True, is is possible to eventually overwhelm a Paramo garment with water, although that never happened to me. So it's not going to be like Gore Tex that is so darn waterproof they now make waders from it, but it's bloody good. For a rough gist; consider everything good you've ever heard about Ventile clothing for toughness, and add Nikwax and steroids and you're on the right track.
My money would be on the Harkila Pro Hunter X http://harkila.com/products/jackets/pro-hunter-x-jacket
for bomb proofness alone, you won't beat the high end commercial rubber jackets; if you're standing on the side of a fishing boat- perfect, sitting on a cat or skidder- perfect, hiking- very far from perfect 
there are several heavier denier three layer eVENT and Gore jackets that would at least approach bombproof and still breathe some (I say some as even eVENT can be overcome with high output)- these are the jackets that backpackers generally shy away from due to weight, but climbers and mountaineers choose
there are several heavier denier three layer eVENT and Gore jackets that would at least approach bombproof and still breathe some (I say some as even eVENT can be overcome with high output)- these are the jackets that backpackers generally shy away from due to weight, but climbers and mountaineers choose
Grundens is a well-known brand that specializes in commercial fishing gear, which includes heavy-duty rain gear. Their gear is made with PVC or polyurethane-coated nylon, which makes it waterproof and durable. The downside to these materials is that they may not be as breathable as other options, so you may feel more hot and sweaty if you're active while wearing them. Grundens does offer some styles with pit zips, which can help with ventilation. KUIU is another brand that makes high-performance outdoor gear, including rain gear. Their rain gear is made with a 3-layer laminate fabric that is both waterproof and breathable, which may make it more comfortable to wear over extended periods. However, as you mentioned, it is also more expensive than other options. Ultimately, the best rain gear for you will depend on your specific needs and preferences. You may want to consider factors such as the type of activities you'll be doing, the level of protection you need, and your budget. It may also be helpful to read reviews from other outdoor enthusiasts who have used different brands and styles of rain gear in similar environments to yours.
Non breathable but with gaps facing down.
I have had good experience with savage rain gear. That is extremely rugged and rain bird. Otherwise boating jackets are generally pretty solid
And a waterproof hat
I live in rainforest. And I did security patrols. So out in it all night in in outrageous rainfalls.
Eg.
"There were several sites in nearby elevated areas that reported 12-day rainfall totals of more than 2,000 mm. Moderate to major flooding occurred in coastal communities between Daintree and Mackay, nearly 700 km to the southeast. The Daintree River reached record levels after 500 mm of rain fell in just 48 hours."
I have had good experience with savage rain gear. That is extremely rugged and rain bird. Otherwise boating jackets are generally pretty solid
And a waterproof hat
I live in rainforest. And I did security patrols. So out in it all night in in outrageous rainfalls.
Eg.
"There were several sites in nearby elevated areas that reported 12-day rainfall totals of more than 2,000 mm. Moderate to major flooding occurred in coastal communities between Daintree and Mackay, nearly 700 km to the southeast. The Daintree River reached record levels after 500 mm of rain fell in just 48 hours."
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2000
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- 1,058
It isn’t unusual for new members to put quite a bit of effort into answering old questions. I have always been curious whether it is known that the thread is old and the info is shared for others and a new audience or if the effort is put into the reply to help the original poster.
Hopefully, it being seven years since he asked, Quirt will have sorted out some rain gear. Also, he hasn’t visited this site since December 2021. Tap or click on the name of a poster and it shows when they last visited the site. Not that this lessens the value of your post for other folks, just makes it more for them than the OP.