borax baking question

B

bartblade

Joined
Nov 4, 2002
Messages
344
i was wondering how do you know the 20 mule team has baked long enough?

i baked about 1/3rd of what i have tonight and left it in the oven until it was crusty and stirred it around and put in back in for about 5 min.

i think ill bake smaller amounts next time if its the crusty stuff im looking for.

i know to seal it in an air tight container or baking it would be useless but is it ok to leave the other stuff in open box till next time?
 
Normally you need to melt it and then re- grind it into a powder. I just buy the anhydrous and it works great. It was actually cheaper than the 20 mule team. I bought 150lbs of it, That was 5 yrs ago and am just now finishing it up. It was only 75 cts a pound. BUy it direct from a chemical co. You can call the Borax Co. and get a distributor close to you. For now just try the crusty stuff and it sould work just fine. Make sure you have your billet at least red before you apply the flux.

Chuck
 
i do a cake pan at a time normally bakeing it 20 minutes each time with this recipe works great for me---
Thoroughly mix together three parts by bulk of 20 Mule Team Borax (just regular supermarket type), two parts by bulk baking soda and one part by bulk common table salt. Heat in oven at about 300 degrees with the door cracked open a bit until it forms a hard cake. Remove from container (such as a cake pan) and crush back to powder form. One method is to put chunks in a 5-gallon bucket and use a sledge hammer as a tamping tool, using a wire shifter to remove larger clumps for recrushing. Bake again and recrush as necessary. When it no longer cakes, all of the moisture has been removed. Store in a dry container.
hope this helps bb
 
Like Chuck said, Buying anhydrous is a lot easier for the few pennies saved (if any)
Stacy
 
I use both anyhydrous and 20 Mule Team, for years I have heard of the baking thing but have never done it so I have no frame of reference. Other than cutting down on the foamy fall off that you can just catch and re-use on the next heat, what are the benefits from baking?

Tim Zowada an I have disccused this a bit since we have been using the 20 mule team right out of the box for more years than I can remember, but considering the hassle of baking and regrinding, I have a feeling I may be missing out on a benefit I am not aware of that would make the extra work worthwhile.
 
Fitso

How long does anhydrous borax stay anhydrous once exposed to 95°F air at 80% humidity?

Jim Arbuckle
 
DAMNENG said:
Fitso

How long does anhydrous borax stay anhydrous once exposed to 95°F air at 80% humidity?

Jim Arbuckle
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, Jim. I've seen conflicting reports. Most sources suggest it's hygroscopic but I'm not certain it's real bad. Simple observation says it doesn't seem to do any more than rehydrate to the inital decahydrate (10 molecules water per molecule borax) form. The 20MuleTeam I've had never seems to slag down or anything even in the humid Midwest summers. I leave my turkey-pan of Mule team uncovered in the shed year 'round and it never even cakes up much.

One thing that is notable is that the "decahydrate" created in the normal manufacturing process is "efflorescent", meaning that in very dry air it will actually lose water gradually.

Once I can get my missus to fetch me some anhydrous from the shed, I will do a couple little quickie experiments to see how it responds to humidity.
 
I'll say one other thing: by the time the borax is well melted, the water's gone. Everything I've seen says the water is totally gone by 620F. It has no effect on the flux chemistry, only on the handling properties. Actually, by the time it hits welding temps, alot of the borax itself has actually changed into other boron compounds which are actually what do most of the work.

To each their own, though. Using anhydrous certainly isn't going to hurt anything. :) It certainly avoids the "fluffies" from the water boiling off..

I sprinkle MuleTeam on billets and then hold it in the flame outside the forge. It melts fine and I lose little. Most people use wayyyy too much flux. Unlike many places, apparently, MuleTeam is always on the shelf at the store here.
 
I Googled 'anhydrous borax' and found reference to microwaving borax to remove water .That was more efficient [on an industrial scale ] than other methods . Give it a try !!
 
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