Boulder Outdoor Survival School (BOSS) Opinions?

Re: Boulder Outdoor Survival School
I signed up for a 14 day Skills Course with this school, that they then canceled with no warning. As a result, I'm out about $1000 that was spent on non-refundable plane tickets, motel reservations, medical form fees, travel insurance, and "mandatory equipment". I have since found out that B.O.S.S. cancels courses on a routine basis. After students pay them tuition, and make all the necessary arraignments to attend. There is no written company cancelation policies that I could find, nor were there any warnings from staff that B.O.S.S. cancels courses and does not honour its' commitments to students to run the courses that they promise. It should be noted that the owner of the company Josh Bernstein, said that he would have a conversation with me to address the issues, but ultimately decided not to. If you decide to take any course with this company be forewarned that they do cancel courses on a routine basis without warning. Never make travel arraignments until a week or so before the alleged start of the course. Obviously, waiting until the last minute like that is going to cost you more money, but it's better than being ripped off. Keep in mind that there are other reputable primitive living/survival schools out there that do want your business, and do honour their contracts, and for far less money!
 
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You could have bought a lot of Mora knives for that. Enough to have lasted you the seven years since this thread was posted.
 
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Thank you for your thoughts, and I agree that Mors is one of the best! I did take the Karamat course. While I did learn, and improve my skills I was generally very disappointed. Mors instructed for only three half days, which was a major disappointment as I was under the impression that we would receive the majority of our instruction from him. He stated that he had "company at home" who required his attention. Apparently more so than his tuition paying students. The course overall was very disorganized and chaotic. There were no fixed timings for the week. Nor did there appear to be any training syllabus, and if there was one it certainly was not used. Instruction for the day began when everyone decided to wake up, have breakfast, and attend. So as the week progressed the group would have to wait longer and longer for the instruction to begin as the lazy ones would simply sleep in as long as they liked. For people like myself dedicated to learning this grew very old fast, as by the end, half the morning was shot waiting. I found some of the instructors to be very lazy. Lacking in not only skills, but also a commitment to teach. Some of the instructors became visibly annoyed when I would ask them questions as they lounged around the camp fire chatting. One admitted that he was still "high" when the course had begun, and even asked students if they "used"? Presumably to make a purchase. Which of course is beyond inappropriate, and a safety issue. It should be noted that group cooking was done by the students even when it meant that we would miss learning key skills. Staff seemed to feel that these menial tasks were beneath them, providing no assistance. What bothered me the most were all the lost potential learning experiences over the course of the week. Ultimately due to poor leadership, coordination, planning, and execution. It was a great social gathering. Presenting the opportunity to meet new people, and exchange ideas and skills. However, it was not a professional, structured learning environment where instructors go out of their way to teach you the skills that you paid so much to learn.
 
Yes, but did you get a cheap knife out of the deal? And out of further curiosity, what was the total cost of the course you took?

Here is what I find currently listed:
July 27 to August 2, 2014 Cost: $1050.00 plus 5% GST
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Over a grand? Woof! I'll host a gathering and ignore you for half as much! :eek:
 
BOSS has some history.

Dave Buschow

I doubt there's a more uniquely beautiful setting in the entire world than the red rock canyons of Utah. They draw you in, but once you're inside those arid canyons you realize they're as grueling as they are inviting. You better bring your "A" game, be rested and HYDRATED!

It should have been a breeze for Dave Buschow. He'd hiked tundras, climbed mountains, jumped out of airplanes. This guy epitomized adventurousness. Why then did he die at a survival course near Boulder, Utah, last summer? The coroner's report says he died of thirst ... imagine that. (Watch a report on Buschow's death)

The Boulder Outdoor Survival School, or BOSS for short, says they didn't give Dave Buschow water because they wanted to help him pass their rigorous course, which teaches people how to survive in extreme wilderness. Their rules at the time stated you could only drink what you find along the way.

Dave Bushchow's mother says that's "macho stupidity." She says when he began showing signs of severe dehydration they should have given him water.

Dave Buschow dropped dead July 17th of last year. According to witnesses, he was cramping and delusional. He died an ugly death in a beautiful place, but it's not without consequence.

BOSS officials refused to answer our questions, but because of the incident, the school's permit for using federal land was partially suspended by the U.S. Forest Service. To get it back, the Forest Service said the survival school must change its course policy to include, among others things, that students carry water in a 32 ounce bottle. CNN has learned from Forest Service officials that the school will change its survival course policy.

The hope is that what happened to Dave Buschow won't happen again.
. . .
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Lisa Tabb went into the Utah wilderness looking for an adventure and a chance to test her limits.

She left with a broken hip, a broken leg, three broken ribs and a dislocated shoulder.

Now, Tabb has a lawsuit pending in U.S. District Court in Denver against the company that took her into Utah's rugged canyon country, the Boulder Outdoor Survival School, or BOSS, one of the toughest survival schools in the country.
Many participants return raving about the survival experience, but Tabb's suit, plus the death of New York resident David Buschow last week during a BOSS desert trek, reveals that the hardships, though voluntary, are very real.

"This is not an easy course," said Doug Ritter, a wilderness survival expert who edits Equipped to Survive, a publication that reviews survival equipment. "It is designed to stress individuals. Now, the difficulty arises, of course, in determining when somebody is stressed past the breaking point."
BOSS, based in Boulder and in the Utah town of the same name, takes clients on treks up to four weeks long through barren Utah desert and rugged canyon country with only the barest necessities.

Josh Bernstein, the president of BOSS, defended his company's safety record. Severe injuries during BOSS courses are rare, and Buschow's death was the first in Bernstein's 18 years at BOSS.

Bernstein said all BOSS guides are trained and certified as wilderness first responders. They are experienced with the harsh terrain, and they carry full medical kits and emergency supplies of food and water, though they may not tell their students they have the extra supplies.

"The perceived risk of a BOSS field course is typically much higher than the actual risk," Bernstein said.

"There's a very fine line between a facilitated survival experience and a true survival experience," he added. "And our job is to keep the student on the facilitated side."

Buschow, 29, died within the first 24 hours of what was to be a 28-day trek. He complained of thirst and fatigue earlier in the day.

All BOSS field courses start out with an "impact" time, Bernstein said, in which the only food and water participants have come from sources they find in the desert.
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Back when David Wescott ran BOSS, it was a well oiled machine of knowledge and passion.

There a few other schools out there in that area that are awesome. Cody Lundin's courses are great, but a welcome alternative is by Tony Nester, as mentioned before, ancient pathways. Both have made their mark in the primitive skills community. Dave Wescott also runs some courses still through http://www.backtracks.net/
 
There's absolutely no excuse for a student death such as above. The BOSS people ought to be in jail.
 
Later that same year:

Survival school settles lawsuit with family of hiker who collapsed, died The Boulder Outdoor Survival School is creating an annual scholarship in memory of Dave Buschow. By Ed White The Associated Press Article Last Updated: 11/13/2007 01:46:52 AM MST

SALT LAKE CITY — A wilderness-survival school said Monday that it settled a lawsuit with the parents of a New Jersey man who died of dehydration last year during a grueling course in southern Utah.

The Boulder Outdoor Survival School said it was creating an annual scholarship in the name of Dave Buschow for people who want to attend the same 28-day course that took his life in 2006.

Some money also is being paid to resolve the case, but "it's confidential," said Andrew Wright, attorney for the school, known as BOSS.
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http://www.rememberdave.net/
 
Noshtero said:
Has anyone attended one of the courses at BOSS? What was your opinion? Worth the large amount of money (well over $3k for the 28-day course)?
Were there people there with little to no bush experience? Did they keep up?
A specific course you would recommend?

Thanks.
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I attended the BOSS 7 day primitive skills course last May.
This is the "easiest" course and was the least expensive so that's why I went.
And I felt it was the best way to get started.
It was worth it for me.
It was hard the first day or so, honestly I wanted to leave...but stuck through it

here are pics to my experience - https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B83wjp8PLiKmUHlBWktrNGhicTQ&usp=sharing

I'd like to do the 14 day field course.

read this on the 28 day course - http://nikhil.superfacts.org/archives/2007/07/survival_school.html
the author also sponsors a scholarship for 28 day course
 
I took a course from the wilderness learning school and loved it. they concentrated on skills, not suffering, and I would love to go back sometime. Great folks and a lot of fun.
 
Thunderhorse said:
I took a course from the wilderness learning school and loved it. they concentrated on skills, not suffering, and I would love to go back sometime. Great folks and a lot of fun.
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The skills course I went on at BOSS also focused on skills, not suffering. But it was uncomfortable sleeping on pine needle duff and being very cold. There were enough other uncomfortable things, this is certainly beyond your average weekend camping.

While the other BOSS courses are more challenging and there might be en element of suffering, for some there is that desire to challenge yourself mentally, emotionally, physically. I hope to do the 14 day course next year. I live a pretty easy life, and the thought of being taken away outside of my comfort zone is intriguing to me.
 
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