Bow Shooters or Hunters

[gadgetgeek]

The idea is to encourage the next generation to hunt and fish.
Kids that hunt and fish don't usually grow up to rob rob little old ladies or liquor stores.

Its a nice thought, but its either a correlation fallacy, or sample selection bias. Not to harsh your vibe, but its important to give credit where due, and the end results of who does or does not hunt is a different topic.

Where I live there is almost no hunting. None if you don't count culls. Fishing is pretty common, but I'm right in the heart of it, so a small car with a fishing rod rack is not uncommon, but drive an hour inland, and that disappears really fast. However even those who don't fish often surf, or hike, even if its just the little suburb parks. Very much eco-green territory, but its a slow process. The river is in pretty bad shape, and everything there is a shark attack there is calls for another cull, but it is getting better, and there is getting to be a deeper discussion of how to protect the wildlife. Hunting disappeared from the Australian landscape two generations ago, there is so little sport/subsistence hunting its a statistical anomoly. Invasive animal culls and commercial roo hunting is almost all anyone knows. All that said, our suburb is no safer than any other in the country as far as I'm aware. Lots of kids on bikes with fishing rods. Dunno. Worth a thought, but probably needs some real research instead of gut guesses.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Its a nice thought, but its either a correlation fallacy, or sample selection bias. Not to harsh your vibe, but its important to give credit where due, and the end results of who does or does not hunt is a different topic.

Where I live there is almost no hunting. None if you don't count culls. Fishing is pretty common, but I'm right in the heart of it, so a small car with a fishing rod rack is not uncommon, but drive an hour inland, and that disappears really fast. However even those who don't fish often surf, or hike, even if its just the little suburb parks. Very much eco-green territory, but its a slow process. The river is in pretty bad shape, and everything there is a shark attack there is calls for another cull, but it is getting better, and there is getting to be a deeper discussion of how to protect the wildlife. Hunting disappeared from the Australian landscape two generations ago, there is so little sport/subsistence hunting its a statistical anomoly. Invasive animal culls and commercial roo hunting is almost all anyone knows. All that said, our suburb is no safer than any other in the country as far as I'm aware. Lots of kids on bikes with fishing rods. Dunno. Worth a thought, but probably needs some real research instead of gut guesses.

It's surely not the only deterrent, but it's a fact.
And you may want to re read your own post.

You basically said there isn't alot of hunting and fishing,.....and you aren't any more safe than anywhere else.

But that's incorrect.

Actually, you should go get your permit and try it.
Hunting is absolutely allowed in Australia, and it has some of the best fishing in the world.
People fly there from all over the world to fish for Baras.

 

[toxophilus]

Love shooting all types of bows as my forum Handle hints at

Haven't been able to put down my A&H for the past 5 years, it's a lot of fun! Pics from previous season and one from yesterday here in Colorado... followed by one I still shoot every now & then (my Father-in-Law's 1965 Bear Kodiak)

 

[gadgetgeek]

It's surely not the only deterrent, but it's a fact.
And you may want to re read your own post.

You basically said there isn't alot of hunting and fishing,.....and you aren't any more safe than anywhere else.

But that's incorrect.

Actually, you should go get your permit and try it.
Hunting is absolutely allowed in Australia, and it has some of the best fishing in the world.
People fly there from all over the world to fish for Baras.

What I said was, I live where the fishing happens. Sure you go north of me for good barra, but its a daily occurrence to see kids on skateboards and bikes with rods headed home from the river. Doesn't make my neighborhood measurably safer than Brisbane suburbs where very few fish. And one of the "worst" suburbs for crime a few years ago by the stats is pretty local to me. No permits needed, my wife's birthday will be a week long fishing trip.
As far as hunting, my state doesn't even have permits or regulation in the same sense as North America. If its non-native and you have permission on land above a certain size, you are free to cull. But the meat cannot leave the property. There is a possibility for a buddy and myself to do a little bowhunting, but neither of us is all that keen considering we can only cull. It takes a mental shift, and I'm not really one for live target practice. The roo hunting is commercial for sale. Not sure where there even is hunting permits, might be in the NT for buffalo? Not that it matters, hunting is not part of (white) Aussie culture. Other people come here to hunt, or its your job. Even the guys I know who "hunt" do so as part of land use agreements with landowners, its not for recreation.
Keep in mind, I'm comparing Aussie to Aussie, not my local area to Chicago.

 

[Bad Ninja]

What I said was, I live where the fishing happens. Sure you go north of me for good barra, but its a daily occurrence to see kids on skateboards and bikes with rods headed home from the river. Doesn't make my neighborhood measurably safer than Brisbane suburbs where very few fish. And one of the "worst" suburbs for crime a few years ago by the stats is pretty local to me. No permits needed, my wife's birthday will be a week long fishing trip.
As far as hunting, my state doesn't even have permits or regulation in the same sense as North America. If its non-native and you have permission on land above a certain size, you are free to cull. But the meat cannot leave the property. There is a possibility for a buddy and myself to do a little bowhunting, but neither of us is all that keen considering we can only cull. It takes a mental shift, and I'm not really one for live target practice. The roo hunting is commercial for sale. Not sure where there even is hunting permits, might be in the NT for buffalo? Not that it matters, hunting is not part of (white) Aussie culture. Other people come here to hunt, or its your job. Even the guys I know who "hunt" do so as part of land use agreements with landowners, its not for recreation.
Keep in mind, I'm comparing Aussie to Aussie, not my local area to Chicago.

Sounds like you need to get out of the city and try it.
Tons of good fishing all around you.

Hunting is probably hard because you guys can't really own guns without jumping through a ton of hoops, and I get that.
But yes, kids that spend time hunting and fishing instead of running the streets tend avoid a life of crime.
That's a fact.
Nature is a wonderful teacher. The skills learned in the woods apply to everyday life and teach the young how to appreciate life and the real world around them.

"Immerse yourself in the outdoor experience. It will cleanse your soul and make your a better person." - Fred Bear.

If you don't know who Fred Bear is, you need to take the time to learn.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Sounds like you need to get out of the city and try it.
Tons of good fishing all around you.

Hunting is probably hard because you guys can't really own guns without jumping through a ton of hoops, and I get that.
But yes, kids that spend time hunting and fishing instead of running the streets tend avoid a life of crime.
That's a fact.
Nature is a wonderful teacher. The skills learned in the woods apply to everyday life and teach the young how to appreciate life and the real world around them.

"Immerse yourself in the outdoor experience. It will cleanse your soul and make your a better person." - Fred Bear.

If you don't know who Fred Bear is, you need to take the time to learn.

My friend, there is an expression where I grew up, and I think it applies to your current situation. "You just tried to teach a cowboy how to ride a horse"

I teach children in the outdoors. The only reason we don't do fishing is because our location is farther up the mountain than a line can be cast. I've got a dock out back of the apartment, there are three light six foot rods and a 13 foot surf in the cupboard with the mop and broom, and a half kilo of baitfish in the freezer. I'm almost done getting the custom rod holder mounted to my car's nudge bar.
Its alright man, I've made the same mistake, and I'm sure I'll do it again. I don't hold it against you. I just don't particularly like it when anyone seems to take any sort of superiority over another just due to perceived experiences. I think it limits one's viewpoint on others and doesn't let us learn from those we otherwise could have.

I'll agree that getting outdoors is good for everyone. I won't agree that its magic and makes people better humans. I do find that nature makes it easier to teach kids to be better, but that is the key, they gotta be taught.
And yes, I know who Fred Bear is. When it comes to hunting and fishing, I've been in the choir long enough, I've heard the sermon.

 

[Bad Ninja]

There is no such thing magic, but yes, spending time outdoors, and learning self reliance will make you a better person.
If you don't see the changes it makes in a young persons heart and mind, you need to look closer.

It builds their confidence, teaches them self reliance, shows them actions have consequences, and let's them know to be responsible for their choices.
It teaches them to appreciate nature and how conservation benefit s the world around them.
These lessons apply to all aspects of life, and gives them strengths to handle diversity and challenges.
Most people that learn these things at a young age have a better perspective to deal with life's hardships.

Don't miss the Forrest for the trees.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Don't miss the Forrest for the trees.

That about sums it up. If you don't want to read, I'm done writing.

 

[Bad Ninja]

That about sums it up. If you don't want to read, I'm done writing.

Yes, it does.
Well then, tune out and go outside.
It will do ya some good.
I think I'll do the same, and set some hooks for my son to check tonight.

This thread has inspired me.
We will go check out some bows tomorrow.

 

[JB in SC]

toxophilus my second bow was a Kodiak Hunter very similar to that one. I shot Microflite glass arrows then went to the Bear Magnum aluminum shafts later. That photo brings back some memories.

 

[Andy the Aussie]

Hunting disappeared from the Australian landscape two generations ago, there is so little sport/subsistence hunting its a statistical anomoly. Invasive animal culls and commercial roo hunting is almost all anyone knows.

.... well I really have to disagree with you on that, firearm ownership is steadily growing and there remains plenty of hunting going on. In NSW you need a hunting licence (but that is mostly about gaining access to state forests here to hunt, kids are welcome on those hunts as well ) As for culling ('roos are about all that involves) and invasive species, yep, pretty much everything else hunted in Australia is an invasive species ie "not native" (pigs, deer,goats, buffalo, bantang, camel, foxes, rabbits, hares, cane toads , wild dogs etc). As for not removing meat, well perhaps for 'roo culling (as you know for tagged animals you can have either cull tags, meat tags or skin tags) but almost every other edible species you are quite free to take what you want, in reality how hard have you seen cull tags policed ? Truly, you want to take a nice cut off skippy to eat explain how you will be caught or prosecuted ? As long as the carcass in the field is properly tagged ? Just north of BrisVegas you have some wonderful Red Deer hunting available and there are Fallow and Chital Herds to the west and south west, pigs are not hard to find a bit further north or west (allowing for the drought now of course). Perhaps you move in a different circle mate but there are still a generation of hunters coming through now that spend lots of time in the outdoors with gun and bow (or knife on swine). I have been involved in deer hunting out here for over 35yrs, since back when it was only spoken about in hushed tones and was almost secret society like (because there were so few wild herds and people were so secretive about it) now, well it has never been more popular or with more access and deer numbers.....by far !

Clubs run formal hunter education and training...including weekends away, SSAA own a large property in the West of NSW where camps for kids are also run on shooting skills and hunting skills (including going out and taking goats/pigs).

 

[Andy the Aussie]

I will also say that I do not believe that hunting/fishing or the outdoors are the panacea for righting all wrongs with youth and people in general. I have met plenty of cu..*unpleasant individuals* that hunted/fished and spent time in the outdoors. I do believe that any activity that builds self-esteem and pride in achievement is a good start, pretty much anything unrelated to video gaming....

 

[Bad Ninja]

I will also say that I do not believe that hunting/fishing or the outdoors are the panacea for righting all wrongs with youth and people in general. I have met plenty of cu..*unpleasant individuals* that hunted/fished and spent time in the outdoors. I do believe that any activity that builds self-esteem and pride in achievement is a good start, pretty much anything unrelated to video gaming....

Lol
Did I really need to post a legal disclaimer?
Sheesh...

Disclaimer:
My posts are my own opinions, and thoughts, not cannonical gospel to be taken as sole authority on life itself.
They are usually a bit of sarcasm, humor, and wisdom from an old man, sometimes designed to take the piss out of starch collared posts.
Lighten up Francis. It's the internet.

 

[SpySmasher]

That's a fact.

My posts are my own opinions, and thoughts, not cannonical gospel to be taken as sole authority on life itself.

 

[Bad Ninja]

sometimes designed to take the piss out of starch collared posts.
Lighten up Francis. It's the internet.

 

[gadgetgeek]

.... well I really have to disagree with you on that, firearm ownership is steadily growing and there remains plenty of hunting going on. In NSW you need a hunting licence (but that is mostly about gaining access to state forests here to hunt, kids are welcome on those hunts as well ) As for culling ('roos are about all that involves) and invasive species, yep, pretty much everything else hunted in Australia is an invasive species ie "not native" (pigs, deer,goats, buffalo, bantang, camel, foxes, rabbits, hares, cane toads , wild dogs etc). As for not removing meat, well perhaps for 'roo culling (as you know for tagged animals you can have either cull tags, meat tags or skin tags) but almost every other edible species you are quite free to take what you want, in reality how hard have you seen cull tags policed ? Truly, you want to take a nice cut off skippy to eat explain how you will be caught or prosecuted ? As long as the carcass in the field is properly tagged ? Just north of BrisVegas you have some wonderful Red Deer hunting available and there are Fallow and Chital Herds to the west and south west, pigs are not hard to find a bit further north or west (allowing for the drought now of course). Perhaps you move in a different circle mate but there are still a generation of hunters coming through now that spend lots of time in the outdoors with gun and bow (or knife on swine). I have been involved in deer hunting out here for over 35yrs, since back when it was only spoken about in hushed tones and was almost secret society like (because there were so few wild herds and people were so secretive about it) now, well it has never been more popular or with more access and deer numbers.....by far !

Clubs run formal hunter education and training...including weekends away, SSAA own a large property in the West of NSW where camps for kids are also run on shooting skills and hunting skills (including going out and taking goats/pigs).

If I'm going to be corrected by someone, I'll take your word on it Andy, as I know you have the background, I'm just an import!
I think its a cultural thing, I grew up with guys who from year 5-6 spent the first week of rifle season out, and not at school, and once they hit high school, it was the bow opener as well. I know guys who's work schedules are around season openers. I have not seem that same attitude here, but its probably due to it being more spread through the year, and to be honest the shooting sports are kept a bit quieter here than even in Canada. I personally hope the trend of hunter as land manager continues and more people look at the landscape as more than just a photo scene or a potential strip mine. I didn't know SSAA had a youth hunting program, I knew that they supported clubs, but that sounds heaps fun. To be honest part of my medium term goals is getting fully permitted up here as an instructor, because as obnoxious as Bass Pro Shop is, its what I grew up with. Its certainly a quieter culture, I don't know I've seen a Browning Buck tattoo here yet, saw a few back home.

 

[Andy the Aussie]

One of the simple guides I use is driving around here in Sydney seeing all the vehicle stickers that are a give away, some are very obvious "Stop the Extreme Greens" (Hunters, Fishers and Farmers party). SSAA etc but the less obvious that the like of me would recognise, the Browning Buck is actually common as is CZ etc. The one thing here, with the exception of Ducks, we have really never had actual proscribed "hunting seasons" so we generally partake all year round (us deer hunters always try to be away in the Rutt or Roar of course - but hunt all year). You certainly see less of it here in the city but back where I grew up (a few hours into the bush) guns and hunting are still the happy topic of discussion in the school yard for many. One thing, few Australians ever really hunted for subsistence, mostly because when this was really needed (30s/40s/50s in more contemporary time) there really was not that much around to hunt. The deer numbers were so low they may as well have not existed, very few pigs, camels were still working animals, and Buff and Bantang were limited to the NT (which may as well have been another planet - randomly, a good book to read for you to read would be Hell West and Crooked, it details the commercial buff and croc hunting days in the NT pre-WW2). LOTS of people trapped or shot rabbits, we had lots of rabbits !!! And of course people were eating 'roos as well. Having hunted here as long as I have, I would say the last 15-20 years are the best it has been.

 

[Bradw3451]

For those of you that shoot recurve believe you can teach someone to shoot a compound bow in an hour you’re mistaken. I started on, still shoot and own a recurve bow. My two daughters (7 and 4), both shoot recurve bows. Theres NO substitute for learning the fundamentals of archery on a recurve bow as it’s FAR easier to shoot. Significantly less to think about, line up, less gear, less expensive, I could go on and on. This is exactly why I don’t allow my oldest to shoot her compound bow.

The most important thing I can do is pass on the outdoor and sportsman skills and hobbies my father passed to me. This is why my girls shoot (bow and firearm), fly fish, fish, camp, hike, etc. I hope all those mothers and fathers out there are doing the same!