BOY SCOUTS

Joined
Nov 26, 1999
Messages
3
I wont bother going over my qualifications but I guess im as close to what you would
consider an "expert" outdoorsman that one could be without going native or professionaly teaching it. And if i could make a recomendation it would be this, those of you who have competant outdoor skills should consider passing them along to our youth via your local scout troop. Those of you who want to learn more, scouting offers an excellent opportunity while giving much needed adult supervision and positive role models. A side benefit, its alot of fun and the satisfaction is beyond words.

ps
I will share one title that I am most proud of...ScoutMaster


HIKER
 
I'll be darned... I went to school in Appleton for a little while (L.U.) I spent several years also as a Boy Scout. I went all the way from Cub Scout, all the way up to Life as a Boy Scout. If my family hadn't moved, I would have continued to get my Eagle. More kids these days need to get involved in things like scouting. You learn some pretty important things about survival and who you really are. Good on you for being a leader.

------------------
When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

 
Hey Hiker....

First off I agree 110%....

But without this turning into a political thread...I just want to tell you what happened to me in the BS...

About 6 years ago I joined a scout group,,with a friend of mine,,who was also ex militia...

We were in it about six months when the $hit started flying.The scouts would come to ask us how to do this or how to do that,before the original leaders.They really liked us, because we did things a little differently..

The guy in charge expected the other leaders to make chow for him,, and didn't like it when I told him to make his own f-ing Brekey..This didn't go over with him too well..

On top of it all we were a little too military for them. Different ways of doing things I guess..

Anyway we got the boot and that was the extent of it...

The leaders were a bunch of old snobs stuck in their ways and turned the kids into a bunch of sissys,,so what could I do...

Just my .02 cents...

ttyle Eric...

------------------
Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel
Custom made, High Quality
Concealex Sheaths and Tool Holsters
Canada's Only Custom Concealex Shop!

 
Erik,
I can definately understand your perception of the scouts after that troop, I've met one or two that were no better in my life, but many more that were.
I spent all my summers till I hit college at a scout camp, and for the majority, I spent the entire summer there, working on Staff. I've seen more than my fair share of troops, both good and bad, and some of them year after year.
I've also had some interesting experiences with ex-military folks. Ever wonder what happens when you put a young-un like myself in charge of a shooting range, and have some ex-military expert-marksman parent come around who _knows_ exactly how everything should be done? To be fair, I very much liked most that I ran into, but I did kick one or two off my range. OTOH, I'm military now too, and am a stubborn son-of-a-gun who'll probably make a fuss when I have a kid and go to camp with him... I'm glad I never ran into another me, I'd have booted me off the range so fast I never would have seen it...
smile.gif

I also learned all I know about firearms from a group of old 'Nam vets. All of whom were associated with this camp, and some of whom were more grizzly and rough-edged than I knew existed before I worked there. I have yet to see better instructors, or safer instructors, on a range in any organization.
Everyone here knows more than average about survival, and other outdoor skills the BSA teaches, if for no other reason than having read a few of Greg and Ron's posts. The Boy Scouts offers a marvelous place to pass on that knowledge and skill, but it's not the military, nor does it look much like it anymore.
Erik, I'd encourage you to look around at some other troops, it seems you enjoyed working with the kids, and they enjoyed you. I know there are many scoutmasters, with many styles of leadership, probably more varied than you ever encountered in the service, but they are not all difficult to work with, nor do many of them look down upon the military, even if they may avoid their way of doing things occasionally...


Stryver, Eagle-95, Butterbars-99, scoutmaster briefly in-between.
 
I loved the scouts. I went through Eagle Scouts, then was an assistant scoutmaster with my uncle for a time until he died. The thing that kept me from taking over thr troop was when I heard someone say, "Why does a married man with no kids want to be around young boys?" This was the same time that a little league unpire had been arrested for molestation. Maybe I wimped out or whatever by I didnt need that type of trouble. Kinda sorry now, but I also didnt want to give the scouts any black eyes after all they had done to me. I loved my time spent with them and the old troop is not taken care of by a great guy.

------------------
Lee

LIfe is too important to be taken seriously. Oscar Wilde
 
Hi Guys...

I'm still involved..
My son is in Beavers, and I go with him every week, and will keep going with hi..
He enjoys it a lot. don't harbor any bad feelings,, well Ok a few,, but that shouldn't effect my son...

Thanks..

ttyle Eric...

------------------
Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel
Custom made, High Quality
Concealex Sheaths and Tool Holsters
Canada's Only Custom Concealex Shop!

 
And I thought we Eagle Scouts were a dead breed. Scouts was tough for me (my parents made me go, and my troop sucked). We were consistently the troop that was "disinvited" to jamborees every year for unnecessary roughness.

I've been helping friends of mine who are scoutmasters, and this last time I learned something that still has me shaking my head.

My scoutmaster friend asked me to go to the summer camp and teach the boys how to sharpen knives and axes. I went, and to my dismay I found out that they were not permitted to have either lockbacks or knives with blades longer than 3 inches!! When I asked the camp leaders about this, they said it was now BSA policy, because any fixed blade or lockback could be used as a weapon. Does anyone know if this is true?

So, if you're a wise soul who wants to teach, please get involved!

Matt
 
Unfortunately, it is true that fixed blades aren't allowed but I know of no restrictions on locked backs. I'm also an Eagle Scout and proud of it. My son is a Webeloe and my daughter is a brownie, not to mention my wife being a leader for both. I can only say that I have yet to meet anyone who attained Eagle status that turned out to be a loser and I know that it has always helped me feel confident that I could accomplish anything. The skills and values learned have stayed with me and I'll always be grateful for what scouting gave me.
 
A Few Thoughts and Facts

-Scouting has always been a microcosim of society if its happenning out there its happening in here, but the BSA still holds the line even after continually taking it on the chin from liberals, atheists, Gays and anyone else with an axe to grind. Like anything else there is good and bad, if you have a bad experience...move on just as you would with anything else, there are GOOD troops out there...plenty of them actually.

-There is plenty to learn in the scouting program ,simply by association with other experts, Not much on bug eating to be sure but plenty on refining you cooking skills and how to survive and work and thrive as a group(not to mention the best field sanitation and safety program i have ever seen)

-fixed blade knives are absolutly allowed!
the "Guide for Safe Scouting" and the Boy Scout handbook says the arent very usefull for anything but cooking chores in a scout campsite but your welcome to them.(and c'mon in a typical camp isnt this the truth.)especialy in a world of such wonderfull multitools.(at summer camp how ever this can be left up to the camp director but a ban on fixed blades is not BSA policy)

-I have run into my share of troublemaker and dirt bag adults but the service to the youth is what is important. So find a place and tough it out, MAKE IT BETTER. the stakes are no less than our future!

-In my experience, the former military Scouters are much easier to get along with, its the wannabees that see scouting as a power base/trip that cause the trouble.

-just for the record: Eagle '81, USMC '82,
JEST '83, SERE '83,I.T.T. "SummerCamp"'84, Scoutmaster '95,Wood Badge '98


HIKER
 
Eric -- Sorry I misspelled your name!


On Knives...
BSA does, somewhat, discourage fixed blades. But it doesn't really have a national policy outlawing them. However, there are few places where one is allowed to carry a fixed blade around in a city. I worked at a camp near Denver, and they have some rather odd laws. But, primarily because of local laws, the camp did not allow fixed blades. It never really enforced any length limits on folders, but most parents do a decent job of this.

Now, my experience has been at a council run, fixed site camp. In this setting, where food prep, at the worst, consists of sending a runner down to the Commissary to pick up the meal, and at best, involves hiking to the mess hall, what use does your average 10 - 16 year old have for a fixed knife? We have enough problems with odd and assorted grasses with sharp seeds that can be thrown at people, and all the other things kids manage to hurt themselves with. There's a good reason that the common name for the Woodcarving merit badge is 'fingercarving'.

I'm by no means saying that knives and camping don't go together, or that kids shouldn't be allowed to touch blades, but large and or fixed knives don't have much real purpose in a BSA council camp.


Stryver
 
I was a SCOUT as well. Our Troop was great.
We were few and we had little, but we were consistently the BEST in our District when it came to FIRST-AID and WILDERNESS SURVIVAL skills. I have some fond memories from those days.

Barry
Jones Knives
 
Stryver,

Indeed. Inner city or "council run" camps don't seem to need fixed blades. What scared me is that in this camp there were Eagle scouts who not only did not know how to sharpen a knife, but were actually afraid of my "large" fixed blades. This camp was not in the city, and was not council run, it was supposed to be a camp where the kids got their woodsman or survival merit badge (I can't remember which). Not only that, but these guys couldn't shoot a gun, let alone a bow. When I asked the leaders about it, they looked frightened and one of them said that he wanted to do away with any merit badge having to deal with guns or bows or anything "violent".

Was this an abberant troop? I hope so. After reading these posts it seems that it was. I can appreciate the fact that just as things happen in the world they'll eventually happen in the BSA. I'm just sad to see it happen.

If my son wants to be in scouts, more power to him. But if he'll go and be ostracized because he's a shooter, a knife and axe thrower, and a good shot with a bow, and gets fed modern liberal propaganda, I'll ask him to reconsider. If the policies of the BSA are the same as they were when I was growing up, I'll actively encourage him.

I'm just worried about the current trend.

Matt

Eagle Scout, 1985; Scout Master '92-'94, Explorer Leader, '95.
 
Hey Stryver... I am a proud recipient of the "finger carving" merit badge! *L* I laid my thumb open to the bone, and still have nerve damage from that little slip. (I never made that mistake again!) I never did finish carving that D***ed owl, though.

It's unfortunate to hear that there are troops that are discouraging the use of fixed bladed knives. I for one would never seriously venture into the hinterlands without a reliable fixed blade. When the time comes, I'll teach my children likewise.

------------------
When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.



[This message has been edited by David vS (edited 20 December 1999).]
 
Do they still have scouts earn "Tote 'n Chip" cards?

------------------
When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

 
Boy Scouts of America is a large organization with many volunteer Scouters, councils and camps. Most are pretty good, but some are idiots. If you run into idiots, look around until you find a troop and place that is simpatico. I have been an Assistant Scoutmaster, Explorer/Venture advisor, and an advisor on a trip to Philmont. I have personal knowledge of Scouts I have worked with using things they learned in Cubs, Boy or Explorer/Ventures to handle emergency situations. I have also been a registered Girl Scout leader (have a daughter and a son), and think that group is, in the aggregate, good. Both organizations have their weak points, but both can do a lot of good for our children. Both are dependent on volunteer adult leadership, and there is little better one can do to help our youth than to be a Boy or Girl Scout Leader.
 
Waxes,
It shames me to think that there are other eagles out there who cannot sharpen a blade. I can tell you that there are those I know who do not do it as well as I'd like to think they should, or care for their blades as I think they should, but I know none who could not. I also know of no healthy, balanced teenager who was afraid of a knife
smile.gif
What's wrong with them?
smile.gif


I do, however, know people involved in the boy scouts who would rather not deal with guns. They are few and far between, but I've met them. The scouts do not require that an Eagle be familiar with firearms or bows, though, were I to run a troop, I would highly encourage at _least_ a safety course. I never did, however, run into someone actively advocating that the scouts eliminate shooting programs.

The camp I was at did offer wilderness survival, though that badge has roughly the same depth as any other merit badge. Enough for the flavor, and not much else. My feeling was it primarily functioned to raise someone's comfort level, and decrease panic, should someone find themselves lost. It was a tool to keep someone cool-headed enough to be able to be found, not to enable long-term survival. Which is what any basic survival course should be. That level of survival does not need a fixed blade knife. It might have benefited, but not much. I know the classroom situation with a bunch of 10 - 16 year olds would not have benefited from the presence of fixed bladed knives.

We did have axes and saws around, and for woodcraft, those work as well as a fixed blade knife, and better for many things. I believe the 'woodscraft' badge you referred to is the Paul Bunyan patch, and it actually requires the use of an axe, and a saw, in felling, trimming, and cutting of a medium-small tree.

I guess what it comes down to, besides children and local laws, is that the need for a fixed blade knife is eliminated in fixed camping when you use hatchets or axes. Were I given the choice between an axe and a fixed blade in camp, all else equal, I'd take the axe every time.


David Vs --
Yes, the scouts still require a totin' chit to carry a knife on official activities. The basic requriements still include knowledge of safe handling and sharpening for knives, axes and saws. The 'corner' policy so often remarked upon is not an official policy, but so widespread it may as well be.

Bit of policy trivia, there is also a Fireman's Chit supposed to be earned before one builds a fire or carries firemaking supplies. I've yet to see a troop I know of to enforce this...


Stryver
 
You know, Stryver, I think I remember having to get that fireman's chit too. I forgot about that. It was either that, or we had to earn our cooking skill award first. Hmm....

------------------
When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

 
David,
Wow... another skill award guy... You know they got rid of those again? Few if any boys in scouting would know what yer talking about if you mention skill awards...


Stryver, who had the misjudgement not to get signaling MB as soon as he heard they were tossing it.
 
Back
Top