BOYCOTT!!!!!

Chairman Mao, killed more people in China then Hitler, and Stalin combined and then some. The great bulk died of starvation, by changing the farming system. In China if you are convicted of a capitol crime and executed, they send the family of the executed a bill for the bullet.In every major city in China, at least a 1000 people are executed each year.China has a population of about 1.3 billion, but 100+ million are unemployed. We purchase 107 billion in goods from China, and sell 16 billion to their nation.They steal our secerets, and pirate any thing that is of value. They take a stand that their culture is different, but they also live in the 21st century, and they understand, and trade with out problems. China, is not our friend, or partner. Remember, every foot of this earth, has been taken from another by force, at some time in history.

Floyd

[This message has been edited by FWO (edited 04-06-2001).]
 
Bill;
I was thinking of the 1.3 trillion dollar budget, that the senate voted. I don`t even remember how many cigaretts there are in a carton.

Be well
Floyd
 
But Walosi, just think of how much you could get for a bolo tie made from the wood of the tree!

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joker.gif
"Ayo Ghorapani!"
 
Uh Hunh, Uh Hunh....Naow, lessee hyar, Rusty. We avoid Oak, Walnut, and the good or fruitful trees, and only use pisselum,,,,,Silver (plated) picture frame slide & tips, braided hide tie....."Bout $20 for a Chuckie, $25 for a DiFi, $100 for a Teddy (need big tree and rubber gloves-more overhead) d 'phone poles _would_ disrupt communications...Hmmmmm
 
It seems that many of us here are committing the error of assuming that the Chinese government is a single body united in purpose and ideology. That is only slightly less accurate than saying that the American government is a single body united in purpose and ideology. Because of economic and social forces, China is headed for revolutionary change, but whether that change will be positive and peaceful or negative and violent will depend on which forces come to power.

By taking an isolationist/confrontational stance, the US would be playing into the hands of the totalitarian communists because it would provide them with an ideological opponent on whom they could blame all the countries problems, thereby absolving themselves in the public mind (which they would control through the media). In fact, this exact thing is happening right now in Iraq.

Listen to this, which appeared in today's paper: "Totalitarianism, which aspires to nationalize the pubilc's consciousness, depends on intellectual autarky [sic], which depends on a government monopoly of information. Totalitarianism is rendered impossible, and perhaps even tyranny is rendered difficult, by technologies that make nations porous to information. China already was becoming porous in 1989 when students there learned about the Tiananmen Sauare massacres by e-mails from Ann Arbor and other American campuses where they had studied and made friends." This was from a CONSERVATIVE, too -- George Will. He says the exact thing I did in my essay: Positive change in China depends on access to information.

If the people are positively engaged -- through trade, academic exchange, political dialogue, etc. -- then those progressive elements in the government will be more empowered to turn China in a better direction. If, on the other hand, we choose to isolate them, the repression and suffering (and ultimately the threat they present) will only increase.

And I hate to say it, but it sounds like some of you want that. Do you really want war? Are our lives so devoid of purpose that only war can give it meaning?
 
Ruel, any statement of fact regarding the "state of the nation" in China is bound to be an oversimplification. Just the size and age of the country, without the consideration of the many cultures and languages (misrepresented as "dialects") demand that one view cannot encompass everything, nor predict the outcome of any one event. The factions (s) now in control are drawing on centuries of experience in internal politics, and are attempting to apply it to a country they feel is decadent, fat and sloppy, and very, very gullible. They have been given every reason to believe this, and they are to some extent justified in this impression. Our country is less diverse in age/history, etc., but is much more complicated than they realize. Just the difference in personal freedom and the ability to speak out gives us an edge in many respects.
The gambit, their ridiculous claim that a lumbering prop-driven airplane could be the cause of a collision with an agile jet fighter, and their steadfast demand for an apology, shows their disdain for us.
Our "velvet fist" response ("Do not let this incident effect US-Chinese relations") is surely understood, but not yet believed. If their watchers (and they surely have them) report widespread citizen anger, and if our congress moves to set up the mechanics of hurting their trade with us, they will begin to know their gambit has failed. Then, a means of allowing them to retreat from their present position without the loss of face, should settle the matter. The Chinese government is not "testing to see what they will do" in this matter - they feel they already know what we will do. The previous administration gave them every reason to believe we will cave in. They must be proven wrong, but in such a way as to maintain "status quo" in their own realm(s), and avoid the need for them to retaliate rather than admit their mistaken premise. I'm amazed that they would put so much on the line on such a flimsy base, but it proves again that those at the top aren't always up to their jobs. Let's hope ours are, this time around.


 
War with China does not bother me on a personal basis. I'm old and have pretty much lived my life so dying from a missile attack has certain attractions -- it should be quick and I'm sure it would be exciting and is much better than lingering with a bad heart, croaking with lung cancer or spending my last years in some rest home being kept alive by meds and machines.

But --

The world has not seen a major war since WWII and many have never endured that experience but I have and I can guarantee you a world war is no fun. War with China would probably turn into an all out war that would end the world as we know it now besides killing a billion or two people give or take a few million either way. For myself I really don't care that much but I think of my grandkids, nephews and pals and the billion or two who would die who are considerably younger than me and I'd hate to see it happen because of them. And I think of the world trying to recover from such a disaster and that is not a pleasant scenario either.

War seems to be one of the last options.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
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:
DAYUM!!!!!
I would like too see such people that foment those kinds of opinions deported to mainland China.
It's a good thing this is America and that these people have the freedom to express such opinions because if they were in China and saying similar things about the government there they would either be shot or locked up in one of China's prisons.
I'm sure dayumed proud not to know anyone with opinions such as these!!!!!

FWO you are Exactly Right!!!!!!!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Before jumping to conclusions, heres another side of the coin

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/chinaisright.html

heres another


http://www.lewrockwell.com/peirce/peirce33.html</font>
Click to expand...

 
Freedom to speak, and the ability to remain armed while doing so, have allowed us to develop to our present level of existence. The next world war will effectively end all of this, if we allow it to happen. Then, out of those who do survive, the only ones who will continue to live will be those with the most basic skills, hand tools, and the ability to make them - peasants, woodcutters, bare dirt farmers, and yes, kamis. This may be the true meaning of "The meek shall inherit the earth".
 
This thing has dragged down to the point where it resembles Kentucky school rivalries. Received from a friend today:

A Lexington Courier reporter answered a tip about a young mand who had saved his friend's life when attacked by a rabid dog. Finding the boy still on the playground, he was told the lad had killed the dog with a stick torn from a wooden fence. He quickly scribbled a headline in his notebook, and showed it to the boy -"Wildcats Football Fan Saves Friend's Life by Killing Rabid Dog".The boy agreed that they had been playing football, but that he followed basketball.The reporter crossed out "football" and wrote in "basketball", but then the boy told him he wasn't a Wildcats fan, but liked the Louisville University team better. The reporter re-wrote the headline again - "Snotty Redneck B-----d Murders Beloved Family Pet".
 
OK, here's how I see it.

China has bought US politicians, to get into the Most Favored Nation status.

American Big Business naively sees a market opening up with China. Instead, China is going to manipulate US trade so they can sell us 10 bucks worth and buy 1 back from us.

Yes, China is going to have to buy stuff that means big bucks to whomever sells it to them. Do you want to bet that those sales go not to the US but to Hungary, to the Poles, the ...

Now, the politicians and China have it their way while 3/4ths of America wonder why we trade with China for stuff we could get from Asian democracies for a fraction of a penny more on the dollar. And shifting our
purchases from Southeast Asia to China sent the countries like Malaysia, India, etc., into a recession.

All because American Business sees a chance to greedily devour business China will never let happen.

Again, remember 3/4ths of US voters look at the trade situation, and wonder how it all happened. Obviously, it was done for money, and surruptitiously behind the voters backs with scurrilous superficial explanations why it was a good idea. Smoke and mirrors.

I want those servicemen to continue being held hostage. In another week or two, the voters will have become so irate that they'll put pressure on Congress to sanctions against China or else. Then you'll see a bunch of politicians caught with their pants down trying to run and pull up their pants at the same time claiming the were bamboozled by the other party into voting for a mistake.

Derailing China's move into the international market and busting the free trade/most favored nation status is going to take an aroused America. They will hopefully misunderstand how much the politicians can dictate, and how much an overwhelming public opinion can dictate to and scare politicians silly.

Rabble rousing works. I have nothing against the people of Mainland China, but our politicians cheat on their constituants and China's leaders don't play by the book. It's time to let the other nations of the world have a chance at the merchandise americans quit buying. So everyone go down to the hardware store and get some good manila rope about 60 feet long ( we want the POLITICIANS to come up short, not the rope.

Gee, that was a long tirade, wasn't it?

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"Ayo Ghorapani!"
 
I am judging an academic competition this week. Two of my fellow judges are Chinese and just flew in from mainland China. They are each university professors in major cities.

We talked about this issue during lunch today. It was a pleasant and friendly conversation.

They told me that part of the popular outrage over this incident in China is due to the fact that most Chinese were unaware of this type of "spy plane" activity off of their coast.

They mentioned that the United States, the "strongest nation in the world," is often perceived as using strongarm tactics to coerce other nations.

They mentioned that politicians the world over share certain characteristics, which I won't go into here.

 
That, I won't dispute.

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"Ayo Ghorapani!"
 
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