Brand loyalty, or blindness? AKA, Ford vs. Chevy

I

iandh

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Dec 8, 2010
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So, I've been rather frustrated lately by certain interactions with people regarding knives. I'm going to leave brand names out of my post, because IMO it will just muddy the water.

How is it that some people are so entranced with brand name(s), that they are completely unable to make an objective assesment of quality versus value, and in some cases even willing to overlook horrible ergonomics and aesthetics to maintain brand loyalty?

A recent case occured in which I showed a friend a new knife that I'd aquired, that sells in the $100 range. It is a well known, and well respected brand. He also is a knife enthusiast, and immediately pulls another well known, well respected brand from his pocket, that sells in the $200 range.



He states, "You should have looked at [insert his knife brand], they are the best".

I ask, "Why is that? I purchased [insert my knife brand/model] based upon ergonomics and price, and price vs. quality. I don't really care about the brand or the price, as long as the knife is of a good quality and suits my needs."

He answers, "Well, you should just buy [insert his brand], they are the best."



This completely baffles me, as this individual is well educated, and what I would consider to be intelligent. What causes a person to make this type of irrational, baseless decision based upon brand name only? I understand if someone says, "I just like the sound of the name and how the logo looks", beacuse at least that has some type of logic behind it.

Calling one knife superior to another, simply because it is a certain brand that must be better than another certain brand only due to that individual's perception, completely defies all logical thought in my opinion.

What is it that causes otherwise intelligent people to make absolutely absurd, self-destructive, and illogical assumptions like this? Is there actually some type of psychological phenomenon behind this?
 
Must be just some human trait. We love to pick sides, and have our side be right. guy at work was the same way with my spydercos until I schooled him a bit. He's a little younger and more rash. But is outdoorsy and likes to hunt and such.

Anyways me and another coworker were talking about my spyderco because he has a few spydies of his own. Well the younger one butts in and says something like "not if it breaks first, because it's a trash knife made in China" (because he'd only seen the Tenacious) then goes on to brag about his super expensive, limited edition bucks and such (I happen to like Buck a lot, but I only carry Spydies at work) after whipping out my CPM M4 military and showing him the Golden, colorado tag. Then going to my jeep and showing him my Seki City made Spyderco, and educating him a bit he shut up... Then I asked him where he thought his cell phone and half the electronics in his american truck were made :p

Some people are worse than others, this kid has a strong opinion on just about everything, and he can usually be proven wrong quickly.

Meanwhile I'd call myself a fanboy. But I'm not going to say my spydercos can do anything that benchmade, kershaw, cold steel, etc... can't do. I like them, because that's what I know, and they work pretty darn well. If i was given a BM or two as a teenager I might be firmly in their bandwagon. But I at least don't use my side taking to trash talk the other side :D
 
People also like to have their own purchases/choices confirmed as good ones based on others making the same choice.
 
people like that drive me insane. I have a watch collector friend who doesn't have much disposable income right now, but I know what he likes looks-wise and mechanically. I found him a beautiful seiko that is right up his alley and was objectively mechanically superior to the entry level Swiss brands he liked and half the cost.

But he said he couldn't wear a Seiko or any Japanese watch. It has to be a big Swiss brand.
 
It's because of confirmation bias. Here are a couple pages describing it: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/06/23/confirmation-bias/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

But for a quick summary:
Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true. As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way.
...
Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence.
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You can see this readily in the threads where someone says something like, "I have [x] dozen of [Brand X] knives but no [Brand Y] knives."

Another is when someone lists a couple knives they're considering with one main one in mind, and often no matter what is said, the one s/he had in mind in the first place is the one s/he buys.
 
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I know what the BEST knife is but I'm not going to tell you, it's a secret.
BTW both ford and chevy mid and low price models suck. I do like ZR1 Corvettes though.
 
I think a lot of people don't want to admit to themselves that they wasted money that they could have spent elsewhere. That's why I so rarely buy knives on impulse; and research the blade extensively before I buy.

Oddly enough, though, the brand that seems to have the most cultish following to me also seems to have the fan base that's the most knowledgeable about the ins and outs of the knife industry.
 
I'm just baffled that people who otherwise are intelligent, would allow themselves to fall into such base traps.

kreole said:
It's because of confirmation bias. Here are a couple pages describing it: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/06/23/confirmation-bias/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

But for a quick summary:


You can see this readily in the threads where someone says something like, "I have [x] dozen of [Brand X] knives but no [Brand Y] knives."

Another is when someone lists a couple knives they're considering with one main one in mind, and often no matter what is said, the one s/he had in mind in the first place is the one s/he buys.
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Interesting. I'm not so conceited as to claim not to have ever practiced that myself, but I tend to make a conscious effort not to do the very same. Very good method of screwing yourself in some unforseen way.

Noctis3880 said:
My loyalty lies with whomever has the latest flavor of supersteel:thumbup:.
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Isn't that the truth... screw the looks, screw the price. Hell, it doesn't even have to cut anything, as long as the name of the steel sounds interesting.
 
I don't know, but I've always thought it was a way for someone to basically say, "Oh, yeah, I don't like your choice, this is what I think is cool."

"Oh, hey, I just got this new Toyota Tundra."

"Oh, yeah, you should have got a Ford, they're the best."

What they're really trying to say is they don't like the Toyota. I think it's less about Ford being the absolute best as much as them not wanting to just out and say they think you made a bad choice.

In any other case I think just being a complete fanboy about a certain brand of product is somewhat odd, but I think the explanations in this thread work for me.

As far as brand loyalty goes... There are some brands that I am loyal too simply because I've never had a bad experience with them, but even then it's not really something where I'll absolutely buy a certain brand over another. More along the lines of say it's been a few years since I've bought a computer, I want to upgrade, and I'm not sure which motherboards to look at; I know ASUS makes really good motherboards, so I check them out first. I still check out reviews to see if a lot of them are duds, limitations, etc. but for the most part I've gone with ASUS for the last 5 years and never seen a reason to switch until I wanted to try a board more suited to overclocking. The new board manufacturer is DFI, and I'll probably buy another board from them in the future because I like the way they do things.

I don't see a reason to knock brand loyalty as long as you're just trying to find something quality without looking too hard, but I don't know, I've just never understood people that put a certain brand on a higher echelon than the rest when it comes to some things. On the other hand, there are certain brands of food and spirits that I will say are better than any other, so I think a lot of it just has to do with subjectiveness.
 
I guess I'm just trying to get a peek at what's going on inside the heads of people like this... it really baffles me. I'm not saying it is something new to me or anything, just that it comes into sharper perspective as I get older, and more calculating with my decisions.
 
i tend to buy knives (and all other products) based on an information and facts. i usually do a fair bit of homework before i spend my money. i set a basic price point and function and i try to buy the best overall bang for the buck item. even though i have a favorite knife company, i still buy knives from other good makers (when a new design or material is offered). i can't stand people who are blind fanboy's. maybe they just want to be part of an "elite" group because that's their only identity.
 
Happened to me too. I was showing the guys in my gun club my newest spydie, and this new member(first time he attended a club meeting) tells that______ is better. I ask him why, he couldn't answer. It's been 4 months since then, he still can't look me in the eye.

BTW, he has one knife of his preferred brand. His only folder. I dunno if he has other knives except kitchen knives.
 
My first new car for me, after many years since our last new family car, was a new '84 Dodge 600ES Turbo. Wow, the grief I took for that at the college where I taught. Poor dependability - horrid QC - I was prepared for misery... not! Of course, my previous ride - a new car purchase - was a '73 Alfa Romeo 2000 Berlina. Talk about a maintenance-loving car... and I had to be the mechanic - on my salary, I couldn't afford a dealer's oil change. Anything would be more dependable, even, gag, as many suggested a Chrysler product. I replaced it with an '88 Sundance turbo 5sp - it a '90 Shadow turbo 5sp - my wife got an '89 Voyager turbo. All got >135k miles before being passed on to our sons. My latest new buys - my '05 Jeep Liberty and my wife's toy - an '05 Dodge SRT-4 - another turbo. Perfect reliability, after 6+ years & 70+k miles. Some brand loyalty is earned - some is feature-driven. It's great when they are present together. Yeah, I love my soccer mom's ride - my wife loves her hotrod.

I like Buck lockbacks - and Benchmade AXIS locks and frame-locks. I like Boker Tree Brand classic slippies. Multifunctions? I'll take a nice Vic SAK. My experiences with all examples of each type has, by example, solidified my choices. We mostly seem to to chase brands from experience. My only 'me too' leap to a high price spread for quality's sake was my sole CRK knife. We are all just human - and subject to peer pressure.

Stainz
 
Pretty much every company in any industry works day in and day out to get people to think that way.

Last fall I went and tried to research what a good watch is. Turns out virtually all of them are the same. The same QC, accuracy, materials, durability, features etc... There are a few small companies that will produce something that gives more value for the dollar than the average brand name, and very few that make a product that can stand up to an active lifestyle. For example, most "dive watches" that are rated to 200m, are not. The factory does not pressure test, and if you take the watch diving, it voids the warranty. Look up reviews for "dive" watches and it is not uncommon to find them fogging up in the shower...
90% of the companies in that industry exist to get their watches on the wrists of famous people so that other people will blindly walk into a store and buy one on association. That's it. It's like making expensive plastic jewelry, or "printing money". Worse still, once the company gets too full of themselves they want to charge $1,000 for that watch.
 
iandh said:
What is it that causes otherwise intelligent people to make absolutely absurd, self-destructive, and illogical assumptions like this? Is there actually some type of psychological phenomenon behind this?
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Dude I feel ya but unfortunately this occurs in virtually every circle and is even worse in groups like this....

For example some of my interests include, watches, pens, stereo gear, and lighters.

In all of them which have discussion forums there are always those who are enamoured with various brands for no tangible reason when compared to others which are arguably as good but for less money.

Often it is the market leaders that get this position (Bose, Montblanc, Rolex, Harley Davidson, etc)

I have just come to conclude that marketing is powerful stuff as so many just shovel it in and believe it. People spend alot of money for this stuff and have to justify it on some level, admitting that something else is half as much but just as good for whatever reason is painful.

I used to be a huge Rolex guy until I actually owned three of them and then went and bought an Omega, the Rolex pieces were mediocre at best with some silly quality mistakes, the Omega was less than a third what I paid for the Rolex, is made just as well, keeps better time, looks as good if not better, and had none of the silly quality mistakes which I found on each of the Rolex watches.

I kind of look at other things like that now, which is why I prefer Pelikan pens to Montblanc, and Dunhill lighters to Dupont.

Knives seem a little different as the biggest name that I see thrown around alot is Reeve and I would hardly consider them big marketing, so I presume they just have a great product.

Another thing I learned was don't use the word fanboy when your around older people, had one guy go ballistic when I called him that....obviously he didn't know what it meant and took it as a very derogative term :)
 
Artfully Martial said:
people like that drive me insane. I have a watch collector friend who doesn't have much disposable income right now, but I know what he likes looks-wise and mechanically. I found him a beautiful seiko that is right up his alley and was objectively mechanically superior to the entry level Swiss brands he liked and half the cost.

But he said he couldn't wear a Seiko or any Japanese watch. It has to be a big Swiss brand.
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I especially hate this attitude, the same people who say they would never drive a Japanese car or whatever....

I buy what is made the best for the best price regardless of where it is made. If it is made somewhere I prefer then that is a bonus, not a requirement.
 
I think a lot of it is advertising, hearsay and just general BS Hype.

There are people out there who think anything they buy is the best and everyone else should buy what they do and they will bash anything else.

There is a lot of keeping up with the Joneses in the world or people trying to one up the next person.

People are also sheep, they see some actor wearing something and they gotta have it, then their friends, coworkers etc wear it and they really gotta have it.

It's like flip flops and cargo shorts, I wouldn't be caught dead wearing either of them on my worst day ever, but we see people wearing them.

But then I am not into hero worship either, but that's another thread.... ;)
 
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Hi iandh -

People like what they like. You probably will not change someone's mind, nor be able to open a closed mind.

I can be the same way - your example of Ford vs Chevy. I have 4 vehicles, all Chevys. I have had great luck with Chevys, and have not seen a compelling reason to change my habits there.

However, I see in the knife world that there are a great variety of knives available from some very high-quality manufacturers.

The only way I know of to make my own decisions is to try the knives out myself.

Case in point - I had primarily been a Case and Buck man before I wandered into this forum. I had limited experience with Kershaw, having been gifted a nice Centofante.

Now I have experienced many more offerings from Kershaw/ZT, a couple from Benchmade, one from Spyderdco, Busse's and kin, and of course my favorite custom maker, JK Handmade Knives.

Your post indicates that you are more open minded about your purchases and willingness to try new things. You will likely find knives / brands that you don't like as well as knives/brands that you love.

I think the best part is the finding out which is which!

best regards -

mqqn
 
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