Brand Sponsored Knife Steels: Thoughts?

J85909266

J85909266

Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,531
We have some precedent here with CRK developing S30V and S35VN. However that was never a knife company name brand steel. It was open for everyone to use. Now we have Spyderco and now Artisan Cutlery making literal name brand steels that are almost identical to already existing steels, branding them differently, and charging a premium. I am referencing SPY27, which is barely distinguishable from S35VN in use and composition, and now AR-RPM9 by Artisan Cutlery which is basically 9Cr.

I don't really care for it. I feel like this will make everything really convoluted and confusing when following steels and sharpening is already not the most enjoyable part of this hobby. I'm interested in what you guys think.
 
J85909266 said:
I don't really care for it. I feel like this will make everything really convoluted and confusing when following steels and sharpening is already not the most enjoyable part of this hobby. I'm interested in what you guys think.
Click to expand...

I actually don't care for the steel names. After a few first passes on the coarse grit belt I know how the steel behaves. And yes, I think sharpening is an essential and enjoyable part of the hobby.
 
herisson said:
I actually don't care for the steel names. After a few first passes on the coarse grit belt I know how the steel behaves. And yes, I think sharpening is an essential and enjoyable part of the hobby.
Click to expand...
Well, the name of the steel and composition matters. Not all of us have or can afford or accommodate belt grinders and an assortment of belts. Most of us just have a Lansky and a Sharpmaker. But thank you for letting us know how advanced you are.
 
If you can afford a Lansky, you can probably afford a Worksharp. It may not be worth it for one knife but it definitely pays off if you have many knives. If you are so worried about the composition of steel, Google is your friend and there is Larrin here on BF who writes interesting posts about steel.
 
As long as they perform well and are backed up by a reputable company like Spyderco, I don’t mind the new steels. I also read somewhere (Spyderco forum I think) that Sal said SPY27 is an incremental upgrade as opposed to the next revolutionary thing in metallurgy. Paraphrasing of course. I really appreciate the transparency there.

Ultimately, choose a steel according to your needs. Or just buy whatever the heck you want, hahaha.
 
Another 9cr type steel really isn’t needed. It seems like an attempt to get rid of the name because it turns so many people off, including myself.

Spy27 on the other hand makes sense. First, If I was Sal and Eric, at this point creating my own steel just seems like the next step of achievement. With the size of the Spyderco brand I think it’s awesome that they are taking it to the next level.
 
As much as I have loved Spyderco in the past, and they still make one of my favorite knives ever in the Shaman, I just don't agree. It's literally the same thing. It's just taking a known, well performing steel composition and tweaking it and adding brand. If anything, Spyderco influenced Artisan Cutlery and set the precedent. It's just weak and disappointing.
 
Are you so well versed in steel metallurgy that you can assess SPY27 and S35VN are the "same" steel or "barely distinguishable" ? It takes very small quantities of additives or variations in the same additives to make quite a different steel. If Spyderco goes the extra length (and cost) to create and use a new steel, my bet is it is worth it. Anyway, users of SPY27 knives compared to S35VN knives will tell. Not that many will notice. But I applaude Spyderco for pushing the game.
 
115Italian said:
Another 9cr type steel really isn’t needed. It seems like an attempt to get rid of the name because it turns so many people off, including myself.

Spy27 on the other hand makes sense. First, If I was Sal and Eric, at this point creating my own steel just seems like the next step of achievement. With the size of the Spyderco brand I think it’s awesome that they are taking it to the next level.
Click to expand...

Larrin said:
When and where was the composition released?
Click to expand...

I haven't been able to find anything on the composition, but (assuming it is chemically similar to 9Cr18MoV) wouldn't the fact that it's a PM steel be a pretty significant distinction by itself?
 
I don't understand the complaint?

Is the issue that specific knife companies are working with steel companies to develop proprietary steels?

Is the issue too many choices and it's confusing?

Is the issue not knowing how to sharpen the various steels?

SPY27 is not just a tweak of S35VN. They have different make-ups. But let's pretend it doesn't matter and they are essentially the same. So what? We have knife companies working to make knife specific steels and give the community more options and somehow that is a bad thing? As for charging a premium, that's super easy to control. I love Spyderco knives and the M2LW is in my top five designs. But ya know what I say to the extra $40 or so dollars for SPY27? No thank you. But I celebrate the endeavor and am happy for those who love it. My buddy bought his third Para 3 in a just few months and it is SPY27. He is all giddy. Good for him and good for Spyderco.

As for sharpening, I love to sharpen. Some basic understanding of the steel composition will direct you right down the path you want to take. And really, if you can sharpen S30V or S35VN, I can't see SPY27 being a problem.

Again, what is the problem?
 
Last edited:
I thought spy27 was a tweak to vg10, not s35vn.

Still, Chris reeves helped develop S30v and s35vn, and now Sal has really cemented his legacy in the knife world. Not like he needed it, but it's a nice feather to have in the cap.
 
Totally not seeing the issue here. The other steels are still available if that's what the OP likes.

It's like going to the 3 star Michelin restaurant and complaining they don't have any Big Mac's on the menu because that's a very good hamburger. Maybe the best; and any other meals are just confusing and they have all the same ingredients anyway.

Just get le Big Mac at McDonald's and be happy.
 
Proprietary steels have been a thing for a lot longer than this. INFI is probably the most famous example. My biggest problem with super secret proprietary steels is that in the case of INFI and Cold Steel's old Carbon V you end up with with people swearing that they have straight-up mystical attributes and the secrecy surrounding them makes it very difficult to separate myth from reality. I don't think either SPY27 or AR-RPM9 are likely to generate quite the same stories and legends, so I'm not terribly bothered by either one.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Proprietary steels have been a thing for a lot longer than this. INFI is probably the most famous example. My biggest problem with super secret proprietary steels is that in the case of INFI and Cold Steel's old Carbon V you end up with with people swearing that they have straight-up mystical attributes and the secrecy surrounding them makes it very difficult to separate myth from reality. I don't think either SPY27 or AR-RPM9 are likely to generate quite the same stories and legends, so I'm not terribly bothered by either one.
Click to expand...

Beat me to it regarding CS Carbon V (which goes back to the late 80s)
 
Case SS (420Hc, by the way). No big deal. The knives are pretty and do what a pocket knife is supposed to do. Thanks Scagel, there is Spyderco to push the limits for pocket (and fixed) knives. What is it to whine about ?
 
J85909266 said:
We have some precedent here with CRK developing S30V and S35VN. However that was never a knife company name brand steel. It was open for everyone to use. Now we have Spyderco and now Artisan Cutlery making literal name brand steels that are almost identical to already existing steels, branding them differently, and charging a premium. I am referencing SPY27, which is barely distinguishable from S35VN in use and composition, and now AR-RPM9 by Artisan Cutlery which is basically 9Cr.

I don't really care for it. I feel like this will make everything really convoluted and confusing when following steels and sharpening is already not the most enjoyable part of this hobby. I'm interested in what you guys think.
Click to expand...

Eli Chaps said:
I don't understand the complaint?

Is the issue that specific knife companies are working with steel companies to develop proprietary steels?

Is the issue too many choices and it's confusing?

Is the issue not knowing how to sharpen the various steels?

SPY27 is not just a tweak of S35VN. They have different make-ups. But let's pretend it doesn't matter and they are essentially the same. So what? We have knife companies working to make knife specific steels and give the community more options and somehow that is a bad thing? As for charging a premium, that's super easy to control. I love Spyderco knives and the M2LW is in my top five designs. But ya know what I say to the extra $40 or so dollars for SPY27? No thank you. But I celebrate the endeavor and am happy for those who love it. My buddy bought his third Para 3 in a just few months and it is SPY27. He is all giddy. Good for him and good for Spyderco.

As for sharpening, I love to sharpen. Some basic understanding of the steel composition will direct right down the path you want to take. And really, if you can sharpen S30V or S35VN, I can't see SPY27 being a problem.

Again, what is the problem?
Click to expand...

I think you're misconstruing the relationship between CRK and S30V/S35VN. Larrin has a great article on the background, but the short version is that Dick Barber at Crucible developed S30V with input sought from a number of well-known knifemakers, including Chris Reeve (who also did testing). That's a very different scenario than SPY27, which seems to be a variation on S30V/S35VN that Spyderco commissioned Crucible to produce just for them.
 
OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
That's a very different scenario than SPY27, which seems to be a variation on S30V/S35VN that Spyderco commissioned Crucible to produce just for them.
Click to expand...
And how is that not just awesome ? Finally, we get steels produced specifically for the knife industry. There are not many. Most of the beloved ones where originally tool or bearing steels : D2, L6, O1, 52100, 5160, 1084... you name it. I like them all but I'm definitely thrilled that the knife industry has enough leverage to get specific knife steels produced. I love my S30V and S35V knives, too, by the way.
 
OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
I think you're misconstruing the relationship between CRK and S30V/S35VN. Larrin has a great article on the background, but the short version is that Dick Barber at Crucible developed S30V with input sought from a number of well-known knifemakers, including Chris Reeve (who also did testing). That's a very different scenario than SPY27, which seems to be a variation on S30V/S35VN that Spyderco commissioned Crucible to produce just for them.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you think I'm misconstruing. I know exactly how S30V came about and I recognize it was not just a CRK thing. I never made that assertion.

What am I misconstruing?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top