Brand Sponsored Knife Steels: Thoughts?

cali said:
Of course the steel properties can be compared.
I am talking about marketing and pricing - this is unique feature of Spyderco, there is no competition, the price can be set at any level.
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Oh, I see now! Thanks for clarifying that!
 
Okay, thank you all for replying. I read some great points, and formally recant my apprehension.

The only thing that still really bothers me is the branding, exclusivity, and the lore it creates. The members that brought up INFI are in my lane of thought. I spent a lot of money on INFI and kind of feel like an idiot in retrospect.

But I really appreciate Larrin and others weighing in. It makes me feel better about it.
 
J85909266 said:
Okay, thank you all for replying. I read some great points, and formally recant my apprehension.

The only thing that still really bothers me is the branding, exclusivity, and the lore it creates. The members that brought up INFI are in my lane of thought. I spent a lot of money on INFI and kind of feel like an idiot in retrospect.

But I really appreciate Larrin and others weighing in. It makes me feel better about it.
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I think there's a difference between branding a known alloy (e.g. Case SS), having a proprietary steel with publicly-available composition, and using a proprietary "mystery" steel (e.g. INFI, and at least for now, AR-RPM9). If Case wants to call a known steel alloy by some made-up trade name, that doesn't really prevent customers from knowing what they're paying for; same for SPY27. But companies hiding the makeup of their steel turns me off.
 
OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
I think there's a difference between branding a known alloy (e.g. Case SS), having a proprietary steel with publicly-available composition, and using a proprietary "mystery" steel (e.g. INFI, and at least for now, AR-RPM9). If Case wants to call a known steel alloy by some made-up trade name, that doesn't really prevent customers from knowing what they're paying for; same for SPY27. But companies hiding the makeup of their steel turns me off.
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Artisan has discussed this publicly. They are keeping their recipe proprietary for now because they are still pursuing IP protection within China. They put a lot of work into this new steel and have expressed concern over having it copied by other Chinese manufacturers. Apparently, securing that protection is taking longer than expected and they wanted to have product out to retailers sometime this month.
 
Larrin said:
SPY27 is a pretty substantial modification of S35VN. You can see the evolution from previous steels for sure but I wouldn’t denigrate it by calling it a small tweak. Most steels are modifications of something that existed previously, some more extensive than others.
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Exactly.

For some reason when reading this thread, I was picturing an old guy at the end of the Iron Age saying "Pah! Steel! They took good old fashioned iron and tweaked it a little and now they act like it's a whole new thing." :D
 
stabman said:
Exactly.

For some reason when reading this thread, I was picturing an old guy at the end of the Iron Age saying "Pah! Steel! They took good old fashioned iron and tweaked it a little and now they act like it's a whole new thing." :D
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To be fair, you mock literally every apprehension people have, lol. Also, comparing iron vs steel to S35VN and SPY27 is a pretty big stretch.
 
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I get it. My opinion has been declared dumb in the court of Bladeforums. I already conceded, lol. Thanks for the circa 2006 roast, though.
 
I feel like maybe I worded my actual point incorrectly. I may very well be wrong about the differences between SPY27 and S35VN being irrelevant. And I certainly never meant to posit that I am against incremental progress in steels. I was criticizing specifically the exclusive branding and the possible negative effects of increasing cost and confusion for us, the customers. We have certainly seen it in the past.
 
If you want to try some truly mythical steel, you should try out some of @Nathan's Delta 3V... :cool: :thumbsup:

J85909266 said:
I spent a lot of money on INFI and kind of feel like an idiot in retrospect.
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Why? It's great stuff! If the only reason you bought INFI was because you thought it was some kind of magical steel, than you didn't read enough. There's plenty of info out there talking about what INFI is and what it isn't. The quench in unicorn tears after heat treat is unparalleled in the industry, however... ;)
 
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My suspicion is that Crucible is going to discontinue S35VN and possibly S30V in the near future due to S45VN being a successor to both (or at least S35);

Spy27 is a specialty steel and I’m guessing that Spyderco have an exclusive use right on it since they funded its development; its based on VG10 more than anything else but with PM manufacturing and a niobium addition. I doubt we will ever see other brands selling knives in Spy27, but I could see it being licensed under a different name like S210VN to help make it more profitable for all involved.
 
J85909266 said:
Well, the name of the steel and composition matters. Not all of us have or can afford or accommodate belt grinders and an assortment of belts. Most of us just have a Lansky and a Sharpmaker. But thank you for letting us know how advanced you are.
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Your Lansky will do well with any steel. I would recommend the KME diamond stones for high carbide steels. They are $25 each and you could get by with the 300 and 600 grit stones. Maybe add the 1500 if you like a more polished finish. For $50 you can putting a great edge on any steel.

J85909266 said:
I feel like maybe I worded my actual point incorrectly. I may very well be wrong about the differences between SPY27 and S35VN being irrelevant. And I certainly never meant to posit that I am against incremental progress in steels. I was criticizing specifically the exclusive branding and the possible negative effects of increasing cost and confusion for us, the customers. We have certainly seen it in the past.
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I think your point is fair and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. It's easy enough to not buy proprietary steels.

I like playing with different blade steels and seeing the differences first hand. Proprietary or not, I'm happy to try a new steel. New steels seem to emerge all the time. Even if people think Spy27 is the best steel ever, something "better" will be out in a couple of years.
 
John_0917 said:
My suspicion is that Crucible is going to discontinue S35VN and possibly S30V in the near future due to S45VN being a successor to both (or at least S35);

Spy27 is a specialty steel and I’m guessing that Spyderco have an exclusive use right on it since they funded its development; its based on VG10 more than anything else but with PM manufacturing and a niobium addition. I doubt we will ever see other brands selling knives in Spy27, but I could see it being licensed under a different name like S210VN to help make it more profitable for all involved.
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I don't think they'll discontinue either. S35 didn't make s30 obsolete, just like s45 won't make s35 obsolete. We still have s90v and s110v, 154cm and cpm154.

It's just another flavor, no need to get rid of regular old salt even with all the fancy pink Himalayan salt or whatever.
 
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