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Broadhead style dagger (hypothetical question)

Discussion in 'Knife Laws' started by curiouscitizen, May 15, 2018.

  1. curiouscitizen

    curiouscitizen

    2
    May 15, 2018
    Texas as of late has recently repealed its classifications of "illegal knife" and went in favor of "location restricted" which pretty much follows the same rules governing handgun carry (schools, bars, churches, etc)

    Specifically of interest is the removal of wording concerning stabbing instruments, daggers, spears, and some therein specific stuff that generally landed in two major classifications

    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm

    10:46.01 ...
    (6) "Location-restricted knife" means a knife with a blade over five and one-half inches.
    (7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument.

    So it would seem that something VERY easily concealable that employed something like an expanding broadhead with a 2+" cutting radius in something like a retractable sheath (picture like a cross between a small spear and a Hollywood knife that collapses back into the handle) would be completely legal, not only to carry, but to carry just about anywhere.

    It would have a shaft that allowed for much deeper than 5.5" penetration, and actual blades that combined would be less that 5.5", very light, and as concealable as (even resembling) a tactical pen.

    Yes I know tactical pen cracks me up too, but that is what they call them....

    I did some googling on similar type weapons, and I cannot find anything that would make it prohibited.
    Since by nature these things are designed to do damage and drop large game on tissue damage and blood loss, as a rapid deploy, inconspicuous, and potentially effective weapon, does anyone have any comment on why someone would not want to be caught in questionable possession of such a thing?

    Assuming what is not prohibited by law is permissible...?

    I also welcome comments on effectiveness, as a hand's sticking energy vs speed and or kinetic energy of an arrow for delivery of the same weapon type?

    I know the logistics of knife fighting vs what would be a very specific tasked weapon here, but in a very quick to go down self defense situation being able to cut a deep wide hole fast where one could not otherwise legally carry a functional or preferable alternative, it is intriguing to me...

    I do not like to even come close to the "try and arrest me I know my rights!" of legal defense, specifically because it could challenge my greater rights which I value more, so this is purely hypothetical curiosity and would like to see what a larger communities comments would be. Like any LEOs that would be willing to comment on "what would you do?" type discussion?
     
  2. zzyzzogeton

    zzyzzogeton Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 17, 2013
    It would only be usable for a single strike - the "broadhead" would hang on attempted retrieval even worse than the small tines on a frog gig. While potentially deadly, "one strike and you're out"

    Depending on the grind on the blades and the clothing worn by the other party, penetration may be difficult if not nearly impossible.

    Unless you had some sort of guard on it, any strike strong enough to penetrate multiple layers of clothing, especially a leather jacket, would cause the hand to slide forward, loosing penetration energy, and possibly causing self-damage if your hand slid all the way up to the back edges of the "head". Sooooooo, you would need a guard, however minimal it would need to be.

    But....

    If you did have a guard to protect against said forward hand sliding, then everything forward of the guard becomes part of the blade length as Texas case law has determined that blade length is the distance from the tip of the blade to the front of the guard, or in guardless knives, where the guard would logically be if the knife had a guard (i.e., bolster on a folding knife, front of the handle on a guardless fixed blade).

    So for me, such a knife would be as worthless as the proverbial tits on a boar hog.
     
  3. gadgetgeek

    gadgetgeek

    May 19, 2007
    I would suspect that any such device would be recognized solely as a weapon, and not as a knife/weapon. Sort under "misc. martial arts weapons" that are often illegal in a lot of places.
     
    W. Anderson likes this.
  4. curiouscitizen

    curiouscitizen

    2
    May 15, 2018
    Thank you both for the input, a far cry better than most forums where the initial responses from upper members are generally more like "Stupid question, go away!"

    @gadgetgeek, can you cite a specific code on that, I tried locating something like misc weapons clauses and cannot find anything that does not relate back to "knife" by definition that all refer back to 46.01(7)? I know that the law has been tested a few times such as are nun-chucks, bats, canes, etc... "clubs" and usually if there is a question it means someone did something stupid, and the answer generally comes back "yes!" because 46.01(1) is a VERY broad statement that legally reads round about "hit anyone with anything with the intent to harm, and it is a club". By some stretch I think the blades would *actually* be a legal defense to that, but as I said I will not be the test case.

    @zzyzzogeton, I agree its utility is almost equal to a cheap chinese/pakistani pocketknife and just short of an ice pick in practice. But as any cutlery table at a LGS will show you, practical is a long shot from marketable. I see knives at every one that would cost you a finger or four if you did anything functional with them. Likewise some of those can be real issues with real blades as well! I used that terminology to find RAINER v. STATE which I am assuming is the reference you used, and I agree that is compelling evidence to call the whole length a blade. As far as the grip on it, I have considered many things, and I think I can manage that... Provided I do not deem it too risky to build... On retrieval, I have never *used* an expanding head, but I have held a few, I would figure it to collapse back on itself on the back pull just like it was before it hit, is that not the case?

    Point in case there is a real market for fantasy style blades (Exempli gratia, M48<anything>, or the whole budk catalog), and I recently watched a netflix series where the bad guy carried some awful looking thing that looked like it cut a starfish out of you, impossibly complex and complete BS, but it got me thinking...

    So when I see things like a fast strike and a jagdkommando sitting on a table and factor the price difference there is a huge potential there, stab a few blocks of ballistic gel on youtube and sell a case or ten.
    Lets face it someone buying a knife for self defense is either not buying things like this, or buying lots of things like this.

    Going to go watch some hunting videos and see if I can see real evidence of an expanding broadhead in/post action that is not shaped like a bio-hazard sign. :)
    More discussion welcome...
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    W. Anderson likes this.

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