Broke another one.

[James Y]

They make 45,000 knives a day. That's 90,000 scales every day of the week. Do you really think one broken scale a day is worth their time to look at, much less one in six months?

Then why not go back to making the cellidor scales like they did, say, in the ‘70s and ‘80s? That shouldn’t add too much, if they’re making that many knives per day. They have a ‘lifetime warranty’ after all, but most people who break a scale probably wouldn’t bother contacting them about it, so we don’t know if it’s one a day or not. My first Spartan was an older cellidor one, and had been dropped onto my cement garage floor a few times, and only had a small hairline crack on one end that never broke off. Why not take the cellidor scales back to being less eggshell-thin like that?

Jim

 

[yablanowitz]

Do the math. The extra material would cost them maybe $0.02 per scale. Multiply that by 90,000 scales a day, and multiply that by 300 days a year of production. (That last is a guess on my part, I don't know how many days a year they actually work.) That doesn't even include the tooling cost involved, and those new molds would cost tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. For what? To address a 0.01% failure rate that shows up when people treat their knife like a golf ball?

And just for the record, I personally have had many more of the old solid scales warp, crack and break than the new hollow ones.

Victorinox is not interested in the knife knut market. We buy thousands of knives a year, they sell millions of knives a year. We like texture on our scales, but in their market, shiny sells. We think a knife should last forever, they think it is basically a disposable tool.

 

[22-rimfire]

.... And just for the record, I personally have had many more of the old solid scales warp, crack and break than the new hollow ones.

Victorinox is not interested in the knife knut market. We buy thousands of knives a year, they sell millions of knives a year. We like texture on our scales, but in their market, shiny sells. We think a knife should last forever, they think it is basically a disposable tool.

Maybe I am just lucky and not broken the scales on my SAKs. I have dropped them on occasion. Vic does address the knife knut market with their limited edition knives. For the most part, I don't bite very often as I don't care that much. The cellidor scales last just fine to me and I prefer them over alox in general. That is one of the main reasons I purchased a Small Tinker over the Cadet... scales. I still want to pick up a spare Small Tinker next time I see one in a store. They generally are not included as inventory at big box stores selling SAKs. SAKs are fairly disposable based on the many I have seen in houses that I have cleaned out. Most often they are broken and I don't want them. Into the trash they go....

 

[James Y]

Do the math. The extra material would cost them maybe $0.02 per scale. Multiply that by 90,000 scales a day, and multiply that by 300 days a year of production. (That last is a guess on my part, I don't know how many days a year they actually work.) That doesn't even include the tooling cost involved, and those new molds would cost tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. For what? To address a 0.01% failure rate that shows up when people treat their knife like a golf ball?

And just for the record, I personally have had many more of the old solid scales warp, crack and break than the new hollow ones.

Victorinox is not interested in the knife knut market. We buy thousands of knives a year, they sell millions of knives a year. We like texture on our scales, but in their market, shiny sells. We think a knife should last forever, they think it is basically a disposable tool.

I don’t think a knife should necessarily last forever. And although Victorinox mass produces probably more knives per day than any other manufacturer on the planet, I think they have a ‘bit’ more pride in their product than considering them just a throwaway item. Otherwise, they wouldn’t even bother with the quality they have. Victorinox knives aren’t exactly cheap, dollar store Chinese SAK knockoffs.

I also use Victorinox kitchen knives. Many people consider them disposable. I know there are people who, when their Vic kitchen knife starts going dull, will just toss it and buy another one instead of bothering to restore the edge. Meanwhile, I still use the same ones, year after year.

I was simply sharing some personal thoughts. It isn’t as if my thoughts have any power to affect the way Victorinox does things, or to force them to have to increase their production costs.

As far as SAKs being disposable due to being left behind, I would say that, since they are the most common pocketknives the world over, it stands to reason that more will be found left behind. The vast majority of people don’t care about pocketknives anyway, and will abuse it and lose it without a second thought. If the most common knives/pocket tools were made by Buck, Leatherman, Spyderco, Kershaw, etc., I’m sure you’d find a bunch of those broken and left behind as well.
Jim

 

[22-rimfire]

Picked up my spare Small Tinker model yesterday. I enjoyed my visit to the large East TN knife store. They have really broadened their brands and I was impressed. They are even a Bark River dealer now which surprised me. My guess is that is the result of KSF moving to East TN.

To me, I don't own any truly disposable knives. Maybe a couple of the Frost's I own are disposable as I care little about them and will not buy another. If they disappeared tomorrow, I wouldn't care. I won't even gift one as if they aren't good enough for me, I won't give one to somebody else. I think a knife should last with use. I do sharpen my non-serrated Vic kitchen knives. I am going to give the serrated ones a try also. The oldest ones could use an edge refreshing.

Disposable relates to your sense of cost.

 

[redsparrow]

22-rimfire , I'm glad you posted ^^^. I thought I was the only person, who would pick up a spare of an inexpensive SAK, that is currently being produced in big numbers. I didn't want to be without my most often carried EDC. The Vic Evo 11 showed up a couple days ago and I'm happy to have a it as a back up.

 

[22-rimfire]

Produced in large numbers doesn't mean much if you really like a knife and you don't want to wait a week to get a replacement should the need arise. I do not collect SAKs or knives in general. This knife is stashed in its box along with some other SAKs I own that do not use now. It is ready to be used.

 

[redsparrow]

Produced in large numbers doesn't mean much if you really like a knife and you don't want to wait a week to get a replacement should the need arise. ...It is ready to be used.

That is exactly my train of thought. Not only that but I don't expect to hear Vic's plan for future production. A model could go away without warning.

 

[22-rimfire]

That is exactly my train of thought. Not only that but I don't expect to hear Vic's plan for future production. A model could go away without warning.

Prior to deciding to carry the Small Tinker, I was sold on the side locking 111mm Adventurer model that I bought at a gun show around 1990. Same tool set as a Tinker but with one blade. I loved the knife. Vic eventually discontinued it and I heard that this happened.... basically visited the same knife store mentioned above and they told me they were discontinued. So, I did some searching and bought three more (just in case). I left one at a job site and had a replacement when I got home. I still have three new ones I believe as I believe I already had a spare at the time. Anyway, I decided to downsize and that particular model just sits on my desk desk now. I still will carry it occasionally if I know I need to cut something more extreme than I am comfortable with the little Tinker.

I still have not broken one.... But it could happen tomorrow.

 

[pease]

SAKs are fairly disposable based on the many I have seen in houses that I have cleaned out. Most often they are broken and I don't want them. Into the trash they go....

You should keep them when you get a dozen or so send them in for repair, then sell or gift them.