Broken Backsprings

Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
395
Hi Guys:

I have a knife I am really attached to, and while riding in my pocket yesterday, one of the backsprings snapped.

Im going to contact the manufacturer, and Im sure they will take care of me.

Was just wondering..... how common is this? Ive never had it happen before, but have seen one example of it on a vintage knife.

Looking at the grain of the snap (one of the pieces of the spring can be removed from the knife now) There are two different colors in the steel grain.... a darker color and a lighter one. The grain appears to be fine, but not very fine.
 
Happened while in pocket, and different colors on the break? Sounds like it had a crack for a while, and the metal oxidized before it broke through. That might explain the different colors on the break. Are there two blades/tools on the same spring? If so, it could have happened if both blades were ever opened at the same time. I know this is common on the all-stainless "demo" knives. What kind of knife is it?
 
Hey thanks for the reply.

Yes there are two tools on the same spring.

Really suprised it didn't happen while in use... or maybe it did and I didnt notice.

I suppose its possible there was a crack there previous..... but Im pretty sure I would have noticed this prior.

It doesn't really matter what kind of knife it is... im not blaming the manufacturer, just curious about how this can happen and how common it is.
 
I have seen a few (not many) and have never had that happen personally. The ones I have seen were older knives (even older than me).

I would imagine a flaw or bad heat treat of the spring or maybe abuse is the culprit. By abuse it could have been un-intentional, maybe something was in the pocket that put extra stress between the tang and spring when the knife was being closed flexing the spring to a greater degree than normal.

How old is the knife? Any gunk in there? Last but not least are the joints oiled on occasions?
 
Knife is less than a year to me, but made in 2008 I think.

Theres gunk in there....I clean em when it gets bad.
 
Yep, backpocket.

Its been through the washing machine twice.

I did file down the kick on one of the tools, but the break is at the other end.

All in all very weird...doesnt sounds common at all.
 
Okay, I have a theory based on all the info ollected so far. At some point in the past,both blades on this spring were opened at the same time, resulting in a tiny crack on the inside of the spring, where it would not be easily noticed. This crack was there long enough for the now exposed portion of the metal to discolor, perhaps with dirt or dust, perhaps with oxidation. Then, while in the back-pocket, being sat on, there was just enough sideways stress put on the spring to finish the crack, and the broken portion popped out.

Either that, or aliens did it.

Could happen...
 
I've heard that it's a bad thing to open two blades on the same spring at the same time- that it can break the spring. My question is- why? Aren't springs supposed to be... well, springy? Does opening both blades at the same time really bend the spring that much?

I've opened both blades on a single spring a couple times before (before I knew any better) and the knives seem fine. Is this mostly a problem with older knives, or all stainless ones or something? You see SAKs with multiple blades open all the time, but I can't recall ever hearing about a SAK spring breaking.
 
I've heard that it's a bad thing to open two blades on the same spring at the same time- that it can break the spring. My question is- why? Aren't springs supposed to be... well, springy? Does opening both blades at the same time really bend the spring that much?

I've opened both blades on a single spring a couple times before (before I knew any better) and the knives seem fine. Is this mostly a problem with older knives, or all stainless ones or something? You see SAKs with multiple blades open all the time, but I can't recall ever hearing about a SAK spring breaking.

That's why I asked what kind of knife it was. Not to discredit the company, but it's apparently worse on some knives than others. And, I should clarify, it happens mostly when both blades are partially opened at the same time. Also, I'm not sure if the SAK springs are the same as, say, a stockman or muskrat.
 
ok.... this HAS to be something I am doing.

I am on my way out the door for a weekend.

Needed to choose a slipjoint for the pocket like a million times before.

The original Knife is a Queen Equestrian knife.

Went to open my Schatt and Morgan harness jack, and upon opening the backspring snapped. Different steels, different blade configs. Knives usually ride in my back left pocket.

Im a little confused now.... this has to be something I am doing.

Losing faith in slipjoints pretty quick now... had this happened while I was out it would be a huge pain in the ass.
 
I've heard that it's a bad thing to open two blades on the same spring at the same time- that it can break the spring. My question is- why? Aren't springs supposed to be... well, springy? Does opening both blades at the same time really bend the spring that much?

I've opened both blades on a single spring a couple times before (before I knew any better) and the knives seem fine. Is this mostly a problem with older knives, or all stainless ones or something? You see SAKs with multiple blades open all the time, but I can't recall ever hearing about a SAK spring breaking.

I have the same question in my mind. I have a stockman here in front of me now with the spey and sheepsfoot on the same spring. With the knife closed, the spring is flush with the back of the knife. When I open the spey blade, the spring is flush with the back of the knife. If I then open the sheepsfoot, the spring is flush with the back of the knife. I guess I don't understand why this stresses the spring anymore than only having one open at a time, since there is no more deflection when the knife has one blade, both blades or neither blade open. Admittedly, the only time I would want to do this is to clean the knife to get the gunk and dirt out of it. Point is that I need to do that occasionally.

My thoughts are that for a spring to break, there must have been a defect in the spring itself or of simple fatigue failure of the spring. After all these springs have a hole drilled in the center which is at a high stress location and is a discontinuity in the geometry, both of which cause stress concentrations. A rough grind on the inside of the spring could be a crack initiator in a particular spring.

So, I don't see how opening one blade and then the other would have any significant effect on the knife, in fact it seems to me that the knife springs would see as much or more stress as the knife is fixtured for assembly.

Now, I will admit that people that have three arms/hands might be able to stress the backspring by opening both blades simultaneously. This is something that I have not been able to do myself without a vice. And I have found no reason to do so as yet.

So, if you have problems with a spring, you have a situation where there is a fatique failure (you've used the knife for many years and the spring broke due to many cycles) or the knife was overstressed in use (extreme cutting pressure brought to bear) or a manufacturing or design issue exists with the particular knife you have.

Alright, you guys that make these knives, let me know what is wrong with my thinking.

Ed
 
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Sparljo, I think riding with your knife in the backpocket might be what is causing your issue. If the knife is flexing in your pocket, the spring is flexing in the axis that it was not designed to flex. And there are likely many, many flexing cycles while you are riding.

You need to evaluate how you carry these knives and see if you need to adjust your carry position/method.

Ed
 
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I had (and may still have it somewhere) a 70's era Puma Prospector with a broken backspring, happened the first week I owned it. I was too lazy to send it back.
 
I have the same question in my mind. I have a stockman here in front of me now with the spey and sheepsfoot on the same spring. With the knife closed, the spring is flush with the back of the knife. When I open the spey blade, the spring is flush with the back of the knife. If I then open the sheepsfoot, the spring is flush with the back of the knife. I guess I don't understand why this stresses the spring anymore than only having one open at a time, since there is no more deflection when the knife has one blade, both blades or neither blade open...
Ed

It sounds like your knife has half-stops. On knives without half-stops, opening both blades part-way deflects the spring twice as much. Now, most knives can handle it, but I know the Camillus Demo knives had a problem with this, and others may also.
 
Yes, I can see why partially open blades would put more stress on the springs. And no, the knife I was looking at did not have half stops, but I was not opening the blades to "partially open" positions either. Thanks for bringing that to my attention as I wasn't considering that possibiltiy. We see photos of knives in that configuration all the time and it is a valid point. In fact, manufacturers show knives in these configurations all the time for display and photo purposes. Doesn't make it a good practice however.

Ed
 
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I recently had a similar problem with an old Camillus SS military knife dated 1968. Anyway, I had two of the blades open on the same spring and the spring broke/popped. Could have been age or could have been the tension on the spring by opening both blades and leaving them that way for a short period or a combo of both. It's man made and it's metal.

There are some pictures in this link: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=754525
 
All this is giving me the jitters about even opening my knives:eek::D

I wonder if this only happens on knives with a 'heavy' spring? Could this be a factor? Watch out for your GECs.....
 
Thanks 2 brothers.

My teardrop jack broke in the same manner, I opened the blade and heard a ping. Didnt see the equestrian knife break, assuming it happened in my pocket, or happened and I didnt notice while using.

Queen will repair or replace the equestrian knife... not sure about the schatt and morgan yet.

2 backsprings in 2 days would seem to be my fault at first glance.
 
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