Brown Bagging..... SUCKS!

[2knife]

.......

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi David,

you are not a "Brown Bagger".

 

[Kevin Jones]

To clarify, what exactly defines a "brown bagger"? ..I am an individual collector, buying just a FEW pieces a year. At big shows i always put a knife "in the bag" to trade/sell if something better comes along. It's part of the fun at a big venue.
David

David, that would be more like a "tan bagger".

But seriously, that's just part of the enjoyable show experience for the collector IMO.

 

[D lisch]

23 SB, 1/2 a table I will have whole table next year.

 

[TennKnifeman]

Part of the question is whether one abides by show rules or chooses to flaunt them. As a guest or exhibitor when you walk through the door you have said you would abide by those rules.

As I recall the Blade show rules (when I first wrote them) was based on complaints from past shows, rules that worked well at other shows I attended, and what made sense. We didn't call it brown bagging in those days. What the original Blade Show rules said was that those who paid for tables in the room were the ones allowed to transact business in that room. If one didn't want to sit behind a table they could still buy and sell in the room--but only if they bought a license that cost the same as the table rent.

As a collector or knifemaker in the show without a table your trades and sales should be only with the tableholders in the room--not with other collectors in the room.

However, we felt then that what you did on your own time, in your own room, outside the show hall, was your own business. If you have knives of your own and want to sell them at that hotel that weekend, that is your business--as long as it is not on the show floor--as long as you're not soliciting business on the show floor.

That was our original intentions--although I certainly do not speak for the current show management. However I do not think it is possible to police or restrict anyone's conduct outside the show hall that was rented to house the show.

I once kicked out another publication's representative for passing out copies of that magazine (and rate cards) -- and took some flack since then by the editor at the time. Too bad. In that same show Knife World and the NKCA had both paid for tables and were able to pass out publications, and solicit for ads. If you want to do business in the room--buy a table and don't feed off the promotion and money of others.

I think having a "traders" area for non-table holders is self defeating. Why would any maker with high demand bother to get a table at such a show--if not for personal ethics.

It is no secret there are some in this game with little ethics or regard for their other knife enthusiasts. But as Bob Loveless once said, "The market will sort them out soon enough".

What I've talked about here are only the original show rules--and the obligation to obey them--or ignore them. Those rules have been basic at most shows for years.

Tableholders, and knifemakers, do not have proprietary ownership of every dollar that is present at a show event. Those who worry so much about something "taking money out of the room" would usually be better served worrying more about making a better knife.

I don't think Ernest Emerson or Tony Bose will be too worried about brown bagging this weekend.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Part of the question is whether one abides by show rules or chooses to flaunt them. As a guest or exhibitor when you walk through the door you have said you would abide by those rules.

As I recall the Blade show rules (when I first wrote them) was based on complaints from past shows, rules that worked well at other shows I attended, and what made sense. We didn't call it brown bagging in those days. What the original Blade Show rules said was that those who paid for tables in the room were the ones allowed to transact business in that room. If one didn't want to sit behind a table they could still buy and sell in the room--but only if they bought a license that cost the same as the table rent.

As a collector or knifemaker in the show without a table your trades and sales should be only with the tableholders in the room--not with other collectors in the room.

However, we felt then that what you did on your own time, in your own room, outside the show hall, was your own business. If you have knives of your own and want to sell them at that hotel that weekend, that is your business--as long as it is not on the show floor--as long as you're not soliciting business on the show floor.

I agree, collector sales/trades/purchases from non-tableholders should only take place outside the show area, unless the show promoters sanction a "collector's transaction area" such as the ABS show does.

That was our original intentions--although I certainly do not speak for the current show management. However I do not think it is possible to police or restrict anyone's conduct outside the show hall that was rented to house the show.

I once kicked out another publication's representative for passing out copies of that magazine (and rate cards) -- and took some flack since then by the editor at the time. Too bad. In that same show Knife World and the NKCA had both paid for tables and were able to pass out publications, and solicit for ads. If you want to do business in the room--buy a table and don't feed off the promotion and money of others.

I think having a "traders" area for non-table holders is self defeating. Why would any maker with high demand bother to get a table at such a show--if not for personal ethics.

I believe makers/dealers/promoters should be OK with a "collector transaction areas" at shows if for no other reason than as a courtesy to their collectors. By helping collectors they help themselves. Collectors need more outlets to sell and adjust their collections. Remember, collectors/knife buyers keep makers, dealers and show promoters going.
Leaving for Blade Show. :thumbup:

It is no secret there are some in this game with little ethics or regard for their other knife enthusiasts. But as Bob Loveless once said, "The market will sort them out soon enough".

What I've talked about here are only the original show rules--and the obligation to obey them--or ignore them. Those rules have been basic at most shows for years.

Tableholders, and knifemakers, do not have proprietary ownership of every dollar that is present at a show event. Those who worry so much about something "taking money out of the room" would usually be better served worrying more about making a better knife.

I don't think Ernest Emerson or Tony Bose will be too worried about brown bagging this weekend.

*****************

 

[silenthunterstudios]

I've known makers who sold all they had on Thursday night. Bought materials on Friday and were headed home before the afternoon rush hour hits Atlanta (Which BTW, rush hour is actually about 3-4 hours).

Wouldn't it be more advantageous to the maker to stick around till the last day? Maybe keep a model that they normally carry, whether that be a folder or fixed blade, on their person for discussing with potential clients? Maybe have a folder full of good pics? I have seen some makers do this, actually just placed an order with one. He had a few of his own personal carry models, and a display binder full of pics.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Silent,

It is a different mind set on the "other" side of the table.

When someone wants to buy a knife it is difficult to say no. After all that is why you paid for the table.

I agree 100% about the photos. I recommend that to makers all the time.

You could have a valid point about Sunday...but only for the Blade Show. Every other 3 day show is done about 4PM on Saturday....even though it doesn't close till 2-4PM on Sunday.

 

[John R. Fraps]

I so much agree with Bruce's comments about the past and believe should be the case for the present and future.
I am a "not prolific" collector and a mostly maker.
If you want to go to a show and sell....not trade up, but sell for money, and don't have a table, keep it off the show floor...otherwise I see it as brown-bagging, and I'll talk to the show management about it.
This is my first miss of having a table at Blade in 10 +/- years....my concerns, not with the economy, not with show management.

I hope you all have a wonderfully successful 2009 Blade Show!!!!!

 

[sidecutter]

i'm working in bastids back yard- sorta. ( cobb co. jail ) anyways been hearing ads for BLADE on several radio stations. the word is getting out around here. see ya there !!! paul ( and i'll be packin !!!!....... $$$$ )

 

[betzner]

I so much agree with Bruce's comments about the past and believe should be the case for the present and future.
I am a "not prolific" collector and a mostly maker.
If you want to go to a show and sell....not trade up, but sell for money, and don't have a table, keep it off the show floor...otherwise I see it as brown-bagging, and I'll talk to the show management about it.
This is my first miss of having a table at Blade in 10 +/- years....my concerns, not with the economy, not with show management.

I hope you all have a wonderfully successful 2009 Blade Show!!!!!

What about the guy who brings a couple knives to Blade to sell, that a dealer (with table) snaps up? How might you think that figures into the equation?

 

[John R. Fraps]

Mr. Betzner,
If that person's intent is to take a couple of knives to the show to sell....not trade up, but to obtain cash or a check for those knives, get a table or don't try to "leech off of" the table holders......
IF your intent is to sell "a couple of knives" for cash or a check from anyone, don't be so "economical at the cost of the table holders" to not invest your own money on a table or..... keep it out of the showroom.....
What you do "in the pit" or your one-on-one contacts is your business.....
If it is on the showroom floor, trade up or get a table............
How is a table holding dealer going to "snap it up" unless you are intending to sell, not trade up...and therefore you are taking advantage of the table holders expenses to profit yourself without participating in the costs of selling at the show?

 

[Bologna Xpress]

So I guess my flip out table in the back of my Honda CR-V is not a good idea.

 

[brownshoe]

Boy you guys like rules. I brown bag my lunch almost every day, 'cause my food at home is better than most restuarants

Never been to Blade, but have been to a lot of shows. A collector bringing some knives into a show to trade or sell to a dealer is an important part of many smaller shows. I can't remember how many times I've heard a dealer say to someone with a bag, "got anything you want to get rid of?" or "see anything you like, I'd do a trade if you've got something good?" Remember, for collectors and dealers in used or vintage knives, the trade and sell activities at a show are bread and butter.

Instead of hearing everyone's opinion, anybody know what the current Blade show policy is?

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I don't see how taking knives to a show to trade or sell to a dealer would be brown bagging. That is a way for collectors to upgrade their collections or get cash to purchase more knives at the show.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Instead of hearing everyone's opinion, anybody know what the current Blade show policy is?

direct from Blade's 2009 program pdf:

No “Brown Bagging” Allowed: The
solicitation for business or distribution of
samples, literature or other materials for a
non-exhibiting company, knifemaker, retailer,
etc., that is, a company, knifemaker, retailer,
etc., without a contract to exhibit at the
BLADE Show, is prohibited. No commercial
videotaping or filming is allowed without
prior consent of show management.

That is pretty clear that brown bagging by makers is prohibited at the show.

What falls under the " etc" is open to interpretation.

Is it fair to the makers who pay for the table to have others selling without a table ? Not in my mind , can it be controlled , only if the other makers are verbal to the show promoter about who is doing it.

If you have a business selling knives , and someone stands in front of your store selling knives from their pockets , would you not be upset that this person is getting to your customers before you can ? How is the show any different ? For that weekend that table is your storefront.

I can see where dealers with tables would not be against makers or collectors bagging the show , it's a win/win for them , the people hurt by it are the makers who are table holders. Plus it's a ethical slap in the face to those table holders.

I have seen a couple "dealers" walking show ( who don't have tables ) selling from their pockets as well.

What about the maker who shows up with 50 or so knives to sell and no table ? Karma catches up. The word gets around amongst the makers of who "bagged" the shows , the baggers will find themselves with a smaller group of other makers to turn to when they need help.

 

[severedthumbs]

Is it fair to the makers who pay for the table to have others selling without a table ? Not in my mind , can it be controlled , only if the other makers are verbal to the show promoter about who is doing it.

If you have a business selling knives , and someone stands in front of your store selling knives from their pockets , would you not be upset that this person is getting to your customers before you can ? How is the show any different ? For that weekend that table is your storefront.

I can see where dealers with tables would not be against makers or collectors bagging the show , it's a win/win for them , the people hurt by it are the makers who are table holders. Plus it's a ethical slap in the face to those table holders.

I have seen a couple "dealers" walking show ( who don't have tables ) selling from their pockets as well.

What about the maker who shows up with 50 or so knives to sell and no table ? Karma catches up. The word gets around amongst the makers of who "bagged" the shows , the baggers will find themselves with a smaller group of other makers to turn to when they need help.

Tableholders, and knifemakers, do not have proprietary ownership of every dollar that is present at a show event. Those who worry so much about something "taking money out of the room" would usually be better served worrying more about making a better knife.

*********

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

sorry , but I disagree , it's their show , their rules.

Those who worry so much about something "taking money out of the room" would usually be better served worrying more about making a better knife.

That's one persons opinion , having been at Blade and hearing how others makers view brown baggers ,and having spoken with quite a few makers via email and pm's lately, I am pretty darn sure not all makers feel the way Bruce does.

Opinions vary , some overlook it , some don't. All comes down to respect and courtesy , some will feel offended by the baggers , some won't.

 

[brownshoe]

Thanks for the straight dope.

I can see not allowing a maker to come to the show and sell his wares directly to customers, but the "distribution" clause appears to prohibit a maker from delivering knives on the show floor for sale by a dealer even if they have an existing relationship with a dealer. Seems kind of weird to me.