Hey everyone, I was wondering if there were any WSS style groups similar to the scouts that I might be interested in. Don't get me wrong, I was a boyscout, but it seems like the group has lost sight of its original goal. My efforts to steer the group toward the outdoors have all been rejected/ignored/overruled, so perhaps there are others out there? We live in the southwest, any input appreciated, thanks all!
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Bsa?
- Thread starter Paulde
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That's a shame. The BSA around me in theMidwest is big on the outdoors, at least the ones in my main area.
All I can offer is a good luck wish to you. Hopefully you can find something or even look into starting your own BSA troop if that's allowed.
All I can offer is a good luck wish to you. Hopefully you can find something or even look into starting your own BSA troop if that's allowed.
I cant think of any organization, but I really wish there was one.
Boy Scouts taught me a lot but , in my opinion, my troop has it's problems also.
ETA
I believe the biggest problem is that the BSA, in my Troop, simply doesn't attract older youth. We did a lot of "car camping" and I did learn a great deal but there is only so much you can do with 14-15 year olds as the leaders.
Boy Scouts taught me a lot but , in my opinion, my troop has it's problems also.
ETA
I believe the biggest problem is that the BSA, in my Troop, simply doesn't attract older youth. We did a lot of "car camping" and I did learn a great deal but there is only so much you can do with 14-15 year olds as the leaders.
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Find a different troop that wants to do the stuff you're interested in, I know they are out there...
The troop we left in Michigan was big on camping, once per month, without ever missing one in my recollection spanning many years. Polar bears in the winter and all sorts of good outdoor activities. Several of the Eagles from years gone by had returned in adult leadership positions, and one of them started a Venture crew which did long (50-100 miles) canoe trips during the summer.
Here in California, my wife (the "real" Boy Scout in the family) searched around and talked to several leaders and the council offices before we joined our current troop. We sent two (!) crews to Philmont last year (I missed the cut, but my youngest son went) and we're sending another one this year (I got in this time, woo hoo!).
Barring finding a troop that you like, go to a local church or school, find some sponsorship and start a new one. I'll bet if you talked up the outdoors aspects in the right venue, you could get 20 kids pronto.
The troop we left in Michigan was big on camping, once per month, without ever missing one in my recollection spanning many years. Polar bears in the winter and all sorts of good outdoor activities. Several of the Eagles from years gone by had returned in adult leadership positions, and one of them started a Venture crew which did long (50-100 miles) canoe trips during the summer.
Here in California, my wife (the "real" Boy Scout in the family) searched around and talked to several leaders and the council offices before we joined our current troop. We sent two (!) crews to Philmont last year (I missed the cut, but my youngest son went) and we're sending another one this year (I got in this time, woo hoo!).
Barring finding a troop that you like, go to a local church or school, find some sponsorship and start a new one. I'll bet if you talked up the outdoors aspects in the right venue, you could get 20 kids pronto.
the BSA (and canadian scouts) has gone the way of the dodo. Its function now is little more than pandering to special interest groups with liberal agendas and touchy feely everyones a winner, the outdoors is bad, campfires, axes, knives, guns are all bad heres a crayon draw a nice picture pile of BS.
Baden Powell would be LIVID if he saw how his once great organization that turned boys into men has been ripped apart, watered down, feminized, politically corrected and otherwise completely butchered into nothing more than a bunch of sissies being led by limp wristed hand wringers.
Baden Powell would be LIVID if he saw how his once great organization that turned boys into men has been ripped apart, watered down, feminized, politically corrected and otherwise completely butchered into nothing more than a bunch of sissies being led by limp wristed hand wringers.
Cub scouts is a lot of crafts and games Boy scouts is a lot more "Outdoors" Also their is Venturing and COPE programs. If one scout troop does not camp enough for you check out others. You local council will give you a list. Might even tell you which ones camp out more.
Last week end my sons troop went camping. High temp was about 20. Next month we are teaching a little survival. ( Shelter and fire). We go out once a month.
Last week end my sons troop went camping. High temp was about 20. Next month we are teaching a little survival. ( Shelter and fire). We go out once a month.
What BSA needs most is leadership.From within.I think that is what makes or breaks any troop.The older boys are always looked up to by the puppies.If the older scouts are hep it is a good troop.
My grandson just made Eagle and my son tells me that he just about runs the troop. The troop is active because the older boys are active.
my.02
Randy
My grandson just made Eagle and my son tells me that he just about runs the troop. The troop is active because the older boys are active.
my.02
Randy
I was a scout from 10 till 17yrs. And had a ball, learnt a lot of skills that set the foundation to who I am today, in and out of the bush.
A mate who was a Scout leader tried to get me back in 8yrs ago I was keen as mustard to start but here as well, the movement has lost it's soul. The internal politics is damnable. Mixed sex, super safe ( means little fun) responsibility removed, baby sitting.
I gave up and within six months he had been run out of that group ( suburb) by a empire builder ( person who can't succeed in the real world so builds an empire in a volunteer organisation then stuffs around people who are there for the right reasons, OOPs do I sound bitter and twisted there?) . He moved to another group but after 19yrs in the movement he started putting more effort into the Army cadet unit he had been involved with.
I have just signed up with them. System is good run by the kids with adult supervision, real skills, real discipline ( read that as accountability, You can score "extras" (volunteering for latrine duties etc) for not having a pen and paper when you front up to a lecture) real effort by the kids to stay there. Grooming ( haircuts, polished boots ironed Cams), advancement ( if they don't want to do courses to advance they have to "show cause" why they should be allowed to stay and tread water)
I was at a Birthday party the other day ( for that mate actually ) and there was a Scout leader there with a Mohawk haircut ( not a sub-branch of the Mohican tribe in Australia that I'm aware of)
You gunna leave your ten year old with a scruffy looking bloke with a three day growth and a Mohawk? Not me.
Carl
A mate who was a Scout leader tried to get me back in 8yrs ago I was keen as mustard to start but here as well, the movement has lost it's soul. The internal politics is damnable. Mixed sex, super safe ( means little fun) responsibility removed, baby sitting.
I gave up and within six months he had been run out of that group ( suburb) by a empire builder ( person who can't succeed in the real world so builds an empire in a volunteer organisation then stuffs around people who are there for the right reasons, OOPs do I sound bitter and twisted there?) . He moved to another group but after 19yrs in the movement he started putting more effort into the Army cadet unit he had been involved with.
I have just signed up with them. System is good run by the kids with adult supervision, real skills, real discipline ( read that as accountability, You can score "extras" (volunteering for latrine duties etc) for not having a pen and paper when you front up to a lecture) real effort by the kids to stay there. Grooming ( haircuts, polished boots ironed Cams), advancement ( if they don't want to do courses to advance they have to "show cause" why they should be allowed to stay and tread water)
I was at a Birthday party the other day ( for that mate actually ) and there was a Scout leader there with a Mohawk haircut ( not a sub-branch of the Mohican tribe in Australia that I'm aware of)
You gunna leave your ten year old with a scruffy looking bloke with a three day growth and a Mohawk? Not me.
Carl
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- Jan 14, 2007
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Thats kind of where I'm at now with my 7 yo son. He joined Cub Scouts last year and we have yet to do much of anything! $100 to join another $100 for the uniform and I can honestly say I'm pretty disappointed!
We have a great State park nearby that has cabins for scouts. There is no excuse why we can't camp in the winter! I mean YOUR IN A CABIN!!!
I can't get people to bite though....can't understand....the state park is only 15 miles away! If my son doesn't want to go back next year, I won't even argue with him. I mean, this is our first year and we came in 4th place with popcorn sales! We got beat out of 3rd by $5! We raised $750 in popcorn sales...and this is what we get.....NOT COOL!!!
We have a great State park nearby that has cabins for scouts. There is no excuse why we can't camp in the winter! I mean YOUR IN A CABIN!!!
I can't get people to bite though....can't understand....the state park is only 15 miles away! If my son doesn't want to go back next year, I won't even argue with him. I mean, this is our first year and we came in 4th place with popcorn sales! We got beat out of 3rd by $5! We raised $750 in popcorn sales...and this is what we get.....NOT COOL!!!
- Joined
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There are good Packs/Troops out there. I've in them as a kid and I'm around them now with my 9 yr old. He's a Bear, headed to Webelos and he's loving it. Once they get to Webelos, that's where they start camping more.
I even signed up to be an assistant leader. I'll go do the outdoor training that they require in a couple of months. Get involved. As corny as it sounds, you can make a difference.
I even signed up to be an assistant leader. I'll go do the outdoor training that they require in a couple of months. Get involved. As corny as it sounds, you can make a difference.
No.
Yes.
I wrote this four years ago on a similar topic on the Hoodswoods forum, unless things have changed very drastically since then it's still valid, and I couldn't have really said it any better now.
"Posted on: Nov 2 2006
Right now I'm at school about 700 miles from home, I turned in my Eagle scout application the day before I left back in August, and (hopefully) will be able to take my board of review when I'm home for Thanksgiving. I've been in Scouts since I was in 7th grade.
Like a lot have said, the experience you have in Boy scouts Is going to be directly related to the leaders you have. Luckily, my troop had a great set of leaders. The Scoutmaster has been leader of the troop since before I was born, served in the Navy in Vietnam, very active, and loves the outdoors. I joined back in 7th grade because of reading camping and survival books and wanted to get outdoors, something which no one in my family was very interested in. The troop takes weekend camping trips once a month, car camping usually (though organization campgrounds are always more seculded than "modern campgrounds"), though canoeing and backpacking are done at least once a year each, every summer we go to summer camp for one week, and take a one week high adventure. We wore our uniforms (just shirts, patches and neckerchiefs if you had one) usually about twice a year and at summer camp during formations.
Summer camp had us scouts basically on our own, since our SM had to work and wasn't with us all week, we had adults, but the SPL (usually me.. haha) was responsible for a lot. High Adventures were awesome, my first year we biked across Michigan, the next Whitewater rafting, then canoeing and backpacking on Isle Royale, canoeing in quetico, and whitewater rafting in WV again, I loved those trips, and I know there's no way i would've been able to do any of it if it weren't for Scouts.
However, aside from the leaders our troop also had the benefit of never having more than 12 Scouts at any time I can remember, making going on trips a lot more possible. Other troops I ran into it seemed like were not nearly as outdoor oriented, were more 'by-the-book' (therefore, lame) and had adults basically babysitting the scouts. This past summer we were joined up with another troop for our rafting trip, they weren't allowed to have matches or lighters because their leaders wouldn't allow it, and were bascially clueless when it came to camping, we avoided them as much as possible, (so did the river guides).
I guess I'm sort of rambling here, but I'm trying to say a good deal of scout troops suck, but some are very good. I got lucky.
To Cheap:
Likes:
-Camping/canoeing/biking/backpacking/hiking/fire/etc etc..
-Learning/listening to stories from the leaders about past experiences. Always amusing.
-Being SPL, or filling some other leadership role.
Dislikes:
-Eagle project application: I understand it's a lot of work, but no one was able to explain to me quite what was supposed to presented to the district, and when it was finished who the people who needed to approve it were. Though I was told the process was being revamped in my area, which was cause for a lot of confusion.
-Not enough emphasis on outdoor skills, this was especially evident when I saw other troops.
-Uniforms/Uniform cost. The uniform is crappy and expensive, I don't care if it is made in the US, the prices are insane.
I apologize for the rather winding post, but If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.
And if any of you Hoodlums with sons are in the Detroit , MI area, Troop 479 all the way."
.......and came from a pretty good troop. What is being said here is nothing new. It has been creeping in for many years. I was on camp staff in the late 80s when a newer troop that had already paid for a week at camp was turned away by the Program when they arrived to sign in. Why? They didn't have proper uniforms. What were they wearing you ask?
This was a brand new inner city troop. They didn't have the resources that an established outfit had. What they had done was that each Scout attending was wearing clean OD fatigues that were ironed, pressed, and displaying all BSA insignia appropiately. The leaders were dressed in BSA uniforms. It seemed to us it was the best they could do and they had at least taken the initiative to do something. That was the first time I was ever embarrassed to be involved with the BSA.
Just a few years ago my son joined the Cubs with my encouragement. My wife was drafted as a Den Mother. We had a whole new group of adult leaders, none of whom had any previous Scouting experience. Needless to say, the experience was not a good one. My son stuck it out for 3 years but it just wasn't any fun. I was very disappointed with this Pack but I refuse to throw stones because I couldn't free up the time to volunteer and at least these parents were giving their time and effort.
IMO, if you want a good Pack/Troop you need to look at the adult leadership. Yes the kids should be running the show, but you need long term mentors. If their is a constant turnover of adult leaders that institutional memory is never made, traditions aren't formed and a program founders. Find a Scoutmaster or Pack Leader who has been in at least ten years and you might have a good program. Find one who has been in thirty and I can almost guarantee a good outfit.
I'm still proud of earning my Eagle, (and Quartermaster with Sea Explorers), but BSA has definitely been tarnished. Sandell, Spider, Trapper, we need you.
This was a brand new inner city troop. They didn't have the resources that an established outfit had. What they had done was that each Scout attending was wearing clean OD fatigues that were ironed, pressed, and displaying all BSA insignia appropiately. The leaders were dressed in BSA uniforms. It seemed to us it was the best they could do and they had at least taken the initiative to do something. That was the first time I was ever embarrassed to be involved with the BSA.
Just a few years ago my son joined the Cubs with my encouragement. My wife was drafted as a Den Mother. We had a whole new group of adult leaders, none of whom had any previous Scouting experience. Needless to say, the experience was not a good one. My son stuck it out for 3 years but it just wasn't any fun. I was very disappointed with this Pack but I refuse to throw stones because I couldn't free up the time to volunteer and at least these parents were giving their time and effort.
IMO, if you want a good Pack/Troop you need to look at the adult leadership. Yes the kids should be running the show, but you need long term mentors. If their is a constant turnover of adult leaders that institutional memory is never made, traditions aren't formed and a program founders. Find a Scoutmaster or Pack Leader who has been in at least ten years and you might have a good program. Find one who has been in thirty and I can almost guarantee a good outfit.
I'm still proud of earning my Eagle, (and Quartermaster with Sea Explorers), but BSA has definitely been tarnished. Sandell, Spider, Trapper, we need you.
Well.... thanks everyone. I tried to start a cooperative group/club teaching bushskills (and volunteered teaching it too), and it seemed like there was a lot of interest, but three meetings in found me sitting in the woods alone with my two boys (they don't need the extra instruction, but we had fun anyway). I'm also the assistant pack leader for the pack (we're very small, 15-20 boys) but nobody is interested. I appreciate the input from those who are/work with the scouts, and if I look, I'm sure I can find a pack that's more into what we are, I'm just bummed to see pocket knives traded for crayons and axes for song time!
Is it cub scouts or Boy Scouts? I have no personal experience with a cub scout group but they always seemed to be more 'indoor' oriented. Doing pinewood derby and crafts and crap.
Yea, the latest pack meeting had my son coloring a patch for a "scouting quilt" and when his included dinosaurs eating cake, and us shooting the dinosaurs (thats my boy!) the other parents seemed upset, that was the last straw. What does a quilt have to do with scouting? Lord Powell must be turning over in his grave.
Philmont Scout Ranch in Cimarron, New Mexico
Sea Base in the Florida Keys
Northern Tier Canoe Base Bissett, Manitoba
Okpik Winter Camping Base
National Jamborees at the New West Virginia location
Lots of Adventure out there still! Once an EAGLE SCOUT, always an Eagle.
Sea Base in the Florida Keys
Northern Tier Canoe Base Bissett, Manitoba
Okpik Winter Camping Base
National Jamborees at the New West Virginia location
Lots of Adventure out there still! Once an EAGLE SCOUT, always an Eagle.
Don't let cub scouts ruin your whole view of scouts. When you're son gets into middle school and he's still interested, look into boy scouts with him they (usually) are a whole different animal. You don't need to have been in cubs to join boy scouts, and a lot weren't.