BT Hawk?

[manghu67]

In case anybody is interested in what I think, since I'm the guy that builds the axe in the OPs post, I find it interesting that people here are saying "Yeah, build that!"... And yet nobody has bothered to contact me and inquire as to whether or not I'm ok with anybody using my construction design/intellectual property... I dunno, maybe I'm just funny that way...

gimmejr: Sorry to hear you don't like my designs. I wish I could please everybody, but I can't.

moogoogaidan: Say or believe whatever you like. Bottom line, my stuff works. I know that it works. The people that buy it know it works. That's good enough for me.

 

[Paulinski]

Make it four please as I'd be really interested in BT hawk...

 

[awc]

In case anybody is interested in what I think, since I'm the guy that builds the axe in the OPs post, I find it interesting that people here are saying "Yeah, build that!"... And yet nobody has bothered to contact me and inquire as to whether or not I'm ok with anybody using my construction design/intellectual property... I dunno, maybe I'm just funny that way...

gimmejr: Sorry to hear you don't like my designs. I wish I could please everybody, but I can't.

moogoogaidan: Say or believe whatever you like. Bottom line, my stuff works. I know that it works. The people that buy it know it works. That's good enough for me.

I'm not sure it was anyone's intention here to take your design As Mr pink states:

AK's designs are cool and inspired me to make my own compact hawk, however I only started this thread to motivate Ban to make his own interpretation of a hawk, not necessarily purchase one (anytime soon at least). Just think it'll be fun to see him take on a new project and see where his creativity and imagination takes him.

I've got to say your designs are awesome, and I wish I had the cash to spend on a hawk of yours, or the room to swing one.

 

[gomle]

I'm definately in for a Ban hawk! write me up please!!

 

[manghu67]

First off, thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you dig my stuff. And thanks to those others who had nice things to say about me and my work. I appreciate that.

Second, here is what MR. Pink said in the OP: "Since it's not full tang, 1) you would only need a few rivets to hold on the head and 2) obtaining steel should easy since you won't need a whole sheet for the tang."

Then Ban said he'd even gone out and ordered the fasteners. That's not an issue in and of itself, because lots of people use chainring bolts. They're cool looking and tough, that's why I use 'em myself.

Based on Mr Pink's statement above, as well as the posting of a picture of one of my axes, I'd say that he is indeed suggesting usage of my design. I performed an exhaustive search when I was developing my axes in 2005 to see if anybody else was using an even remotely similar construction technique. The closest thing I could find was the Pirella/Nemesis L-Max, but those have a one piece aluminum handle with a U-shaped channel, and the head is rotatable. Other than that, there was nothing out there. And while there were other composite handled axes, none at the time were constructed as mine are.

The sandwiched composite construction is kinda my thing. You ask me about something, and I'll share just about anything I do with you. That's one of cornerstones of the custom knifemaking world. At least in my corner of it. I wouldn't be where I am if it weren't for all the guys who have helped me out along the way, and I give back. However, someone who will just try and take what they want from me, or suggest doing such, without asking? I have a great big problem with that. As I'm sure any of the rest of you would, were you in my shoes. It happens to me and other makers far more frequently than it should.

I'd love to see Ban do a hawk. Or even better, a bunch of different ones. And make them super badass. As long as they're done his way, and not mine. Know what I'm saying? I want to see construction that makes me say "Damn it!!! That's just cool as hell!!! Why didn't I think of that!?"

I'm not sure it was anyone's intention here to take your design As Mr pink states:


I've got to say your designs are awesome, and I wish I had the cash to spend on a hawk of yours, or the room to swing one.

 

[gomle]

I'm sure a hawk from Ban will be something from his own mind. Although with possibly som Kami inspiration...

 

[Ban]

AK,

I appreciate your designs and have even told others that your work is very cool. Tell me what you feel is uniquely your thing? It was never my intention to attempt to copy your design.

I mentioned that I was toying with the idea in my head about a hawk with a 3V head with Titanium and G10 or CF for the handle. I am not sure what steel you are using for the head but Ti was not part of your handle construction. I was planning on using the composite mainly for grip texture and as a spacer for the sandwich between the Ti. As far as I know composites have been used by countless number of makers for handle material and as spacers, guards, liners, etc..... You even said yourself that you were not the first one to use composites for the handle. Chainring bolts are also used by more than a few makers to secure and fasten handle materials.

I don't really want to turn this into a back and forth pissing contest. I just find it troubling that I have to defend myself for something that I have not yet even made. What does my hawk look like? What sort of grind? How is it put together? What does the tang of the head if any look like? What fastener and configuration will I be using? Hell, I don't even know for sure yet.

Keep up your great work and continue to push the envelope with your designs. I'll buy you a beer if we run into each other again.

 

[manghu67]

Ban, it makes me very happy when other makers dig what I'm doing. Thanks very much for that.

It's not about the materials, it's about the construction. Take a look at the Douglas framing hammer, the loads of ice/climbing axes on the market, the aforementioned L-Max, Cold Steel's newish Trench Hawk, and primitive stone axes. All of these tools have a one piece handle with a socket that the head slides into. And in the case of some ice axes, the head has the socket that the handle slides into, and then they're fastened together in some fashion. What makes my axes unique is my three piece handle sandwiching. There's is no chance for stress or delamination at the bottom of the socket because the ears of the socket on my axes are separate pieces. It is very easy to delaminate G10. I know, because I done it with a utility knife. My design removes that potential. My construction method also allows for maximum contact between all pieces of the axe - the handle pieces with themselves, the head with the ears of the two side pieces, and the butt of the head with the center handle piece. Everything has maximum contact, which results in a more solid, durable piece that transmits less vibration to the user. This construction process is what makes my axes unique. It is very time consuming to execute properly.

When I said I performed an exhaustive search when I was developing my axes, I wasn't joking. That search included sifting through thousands of US patents, and endless search queries. I could find nothing similar to my handle construction anywhere.

I don't want to be a dick or turn this into a pissing match either. None of that is necessary. But put yourself in my shoes, dude. Read that initial post, and tell me how that would make you feel if you had put all of that time, blood, and sweat into developing something that you thought was cool, and that you knew was good, and then you came on here and read that. Would it rub you the wrong way? I don't hold any patents or trademarks because that shit costs money that I don't have, so I guess you can do whatever you want. But ask yourself: Just because I can do something, does it mean that I should?

AK,

I appreciate your designs and have even told others that your work is very cool. Tell me what you feel is uniquely your thing? It was never my intention to attempt to copy your design.

I mentioned that I was toying with the idea in my head about a hawk with a 3V head with Titanium and G10 or CF for the handle. I am not sure what steel you are using for the head but Ti was not part of your handle construction. I was planning on using the composite mainly for grip texture and as a spacer for the sandwich between the Ti. As far as I know composites have been used by countless number of makers for handle material and as spacers, guards, liners, etc..... You even said yourself that you were not the first one to use composites for the handle. Chainring bolts are also used by more than a few makers to secure and fasten handle materials.

I don't really want to turn this into a back and forth pissing contest. I just find it troubling that I have to defend myself for something that I have not yet even made. What does my hawk look like? What sort of grind? How is it put together? What does the tang of the head if any look like? What fastener and configuration will I be using? Hell, I don't even know for sure yet.

Keep up your great work and continue to push the envelope with your designs. I'll buy you a beer if we run into each other again.

 

[suttond]

I agree with AK on this. I have several of his knives and they are unique. I don't blame him one bit for being pissed off after being trasehed on someone elses forum.

 

[Ban]

AK,

I appreciate your research, interpretation, and execute of a composite handle hawk. I have toyed with the idea of a hawk of similar construction in my head before I even saw yours. Of course they are just ideas that have not yet been refined and put into reality like your interpretations. I have considered 1pc, 2pc, and even a 3pc handle construction with a separate head. There are only so many ways to build a axe with composite laminates. In one way, shape, or form a channel has to be established and a fastener of some sort to secure the head. Whether or not a 3pc sandwich design is stronger than a 2pc sandwich or even a solid 1pc is debatable and a whole other subject matter that I don't want to get into here. The main reason a 3pc appealed to me was the fact that I didn't have to manually mill out a slot or slots for the axe head channel that would be necessary for a solid 1pc or 2pc sandwich. All that was required was a center liner that is the same thickness as the head to get the necessary spacing for the channel. A 3pc composite handle sandwiched to a blade has been around. Check out Phil Wilson's partial tang knives. It is also a similar 3pc sandwich construction. There are lots of ways to skin a cat but then again there are also only so many ways to skin a cat. Just like there are only so many blade shapes and grinds one can do on a knife. There is room enough for all.

I agree with AK on this. I have several of his knives and they are unique. I don't blame him one bit for being pissed off after being trasehed on someone elses forum.

We all know that AKs knives are unique just like every maker has their own style and interpretation. We are talking about a hawk here. Its unfortunate that your comments and agenda caused unnecessary tension.

I don't think anyone really set out to trash AK. Opinions are inevitable when things are subject to a public forum. Just see them as that and take them with a grain of salt. We cannot honestly expect to please everyone's taste.