Buck 110 blade steel - top down rating?

skylercstevens said:
Borrowed from the internet. I’ve heard a lot of great things about D2 being a workhorse but have yet to put mine to the test.

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I would have to take issue with this chart on many of these steels. A lot of them are out of order. For example, there is no way that 440C has the wear resistance of D2, unless that D2 were not hardened properly. 440C should be just a tad below BD1 or even with it, depending on hardness. There are a few others, also.
 
sassafrassdogs3 said:
I found this earlier when looking for something else. I hope it comes out alright? Maybe this helps, I don't know much about the different metals either...

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This chart also has a few things misplaced. I'll point out a couple. It does not state which 440 steel. Also, 12C27 is the same steel as 440A, except that Sandvik gets the steel purer and so it performs better. It is out of place in the chart.
 
These charts are of very limited use.

Just saying one steel is better than another is sloppy.

Side by side scientific tests with identical heat treat, edge geometry, and other key factors are non-existent.

Are these charts really worth anything? The realist says no.

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For example, here's an informed view on a common question about 420HC:

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Bill Keyes:

I don't know that all things being equal, edge thickness, heat treat and edge geometry (this is critical) that 420HC would OUT PERFORM 440C in CATRA testing. But, 420HC will perform to the level of 440C on edge holding.

The chemistry of 420HC is such that the primary carbides are much smaller and more uniform than those in 440C; thus, the grain structure of the steel in the heat treated condition is much finer (better/more uniform) in 420HC than in 440C. Because of the more course grain structure and carbides in 440C, it is possible to actually break out minute "chunks" from the edge of the blade in 440C (obviously needing a scope to see). This results in a rougher edge in the 440C (than in 420HC) which can have an impact on initial sharpness and edge retention. The larger carbides in 440C also tend to create more visible "pitting" in the finished blade.

Another benefit of 420HC, because of its chemistry, is its corrosion resistance as compared to 440C. The 420HC when heat treated properly will exhibit less corrosion, all things being equal.

The "functional" hardness range for both materials is not significantly different. 440C can reach RC60, but often in production situations will be somewhere below that. 420HC can also hit RC60, but will typically be a little below that in produciton situations. Our standard is RC58 - 60. A Rockwell of RC58 makes a good blade in that it will hold a good edge (if properly sharpened) and has reasonable ductility.

We have tested a lot of different materials, heat treats and edge angles on our CATRA machine. Without going into detailed results, as stated above, all things being equal 420HC will perform head to head with 440C on the CATRA. At the risk of offending users, a PROPERLY heat treated and PROPERLY sharpened 420HC blade will outperform high end steels that are lacking in one or both of those components. We have verified this numerous times on the CATRA machine.

When I explain about 420HC, I am also careful to point out the HC component. While the HC designation is used in the cutlery field and by steel producers, HC was not an AISI designation. This means that 420 stainless steel can really have a carbon content from the low .20 range I believe to about .5; big spread. With a carbon content of .2, there is no way the steel could be hardened enough to make a functional blade. Thus, the HC designation started being used to roughly specify 420 stainless on the upper end of the scale; we actually specify a minimum carbon content (range) for our material.

Bill Keys
Director, Lean Manufacturing & Engineering"""""""""
 
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From Joe Houser:

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You have to take into account the hardness, the included angle, and the edge geometry, plus to a certain extent, the blade finish.

One thing I do know about our 440C, 425mod, and 420hc is that we get the same basic rockwell out of each of them. 58 to 60 was the range and that was Chuck's law, never to be trifled with.
When we were using 440C the edge geometry was a lot diferent than our Edge 2000 geometry. The comment most often heard during the 440c years was that Buck knives held a great edge, but boy was it hard to get that edge on.
Those earlier knives had an extra operation in production that we called a "flat edge".

Take a look at a new 110 from back then and you can still see a faint line running the length of the edge. That edge was slightly radiused to, thus lending to the hard to resharpen comments because how do you lay a blade edge flat on a stone if the edge is not flat to begin with? Those blades were thicker through the hollow grind which made meant they could stand up to more prying, but again, made it a lot harder to resharpen as you got higher up in the blade.
VERY tough edge and tough blade for sure but our customers were telling us that wanted something they could sharpen. Gradual changes in the blade and edge geometry took place over the years to address this need.
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Wow we heard from two experts from Buck!!!
I bought my first 110 in late 1966 or67
And used them all hard in navy and construction all my life. I learned to sharpen knives at 14 on tri-side pro oil stones and could get hair poping sharp edge at 14. I have NO issue with getting any hard steel sharp! It'
A thing with me...
My non steel snob thoughts are as follows :
Of the "old" buck steels the 3 dot is best with the 3dot 111 classc blade top of the list -i still prefer it as a user blade ,long story as to why
Next I like the s30v as it is higher resistance to frish and salt water (read blood) issues... it is easy for most to sharpen free handed like 3 dot next is 440hc then as a meat processing blade the one sided sharpebed bonded coated blades are wonderful but in construction use will CHIP .. of those I liked the carbon edge.

All the other steels and i have tried (most on the list ) are harder to sharpen free handed And need a diamond steel to freshen up the blade while the others a ceramic hone works well.
That said it would be a good theam to have a collection of ALL the steels avabile on the 110!
 
Jeff O said:
420j2? I've never heard of a 110 in that junk. 440a I doubt. When was w2 used?
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I penned those, thinking OH wanted steels from all Buck knives. Someone last week bought a Buck w/ W2 steel and now I can't find
the post. DM
 
Jeff O said:
Oh, yeah, don't forget Damascus. I have an early one from Pete's custom knife shop that they said was 1095/1020 carbon Damascus. And of course, the current raindrop Damascus.
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Ah yesssss gold Damascus
It is a good meat knife and easy to sharpen and holds up at work but will rust
I cut my self Once with it omg guys ya does Not want to do that! It feels like a micro sharp hacksaw cutting ya!!!
Trivia time : how many kinds of sharp is there and what is the difference ?
 
My experience is the 3 dot 111 Classic blades are of good heat treat but I have to regrind it's profile. Giving it a fuller hollow grind to get it to cut well. Charts are for board room presentations and guys who lack real knife use experience. I would rearrange them. DM
 
The 420j2 scared me, and the w2 got my hopes up lol. I think I have at least one of every steel except sandvik and s35vn.

W2 would be awesome, just sayin.
 
Having read this thread, I have a question now.
In 2005 (Idaho stamp) is the blade on a 110 425M or 420HC?
 
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