Buck 110 Pro lock update?

^tri-ad is the king so far from what ive seen. scorpion and axis/ball bearing does well and spydercos power lock all beat the lockback. the lockback done right is no slouch though.....

same can be said for a proper made liner lock. the real issue is many arent done right.


Buck matches cold steel. We're talking old school lock back vs newer designs claiming superiority. And not a test done by CS but a neutral test. Buck maxed out test. Matching CS and Spyderco.

 
Buck matches cold steel. We're talking old school lock back vs newer designs claiming superiority. And not a test done by CS but a neutral test. Buck maxed out test. Matching CS and Spyderco.

im a huge buck fan and their lock back is the original and one of the best considering when it was first created. the tri-ad is stronger though and an evolution of bucks already great design. i give credit where credit it due. demkos design is very smart making a strong folder even stronger.

i watched all those bladehq tests when they came out. they stopped at a certain weight. they didnt keep going. no way to see which would keep going in their test, since they stopped. the gerber plastic failed not so much their lock. they used the same test demko does it that video. also demko far as i know has never tested a buck 110. i expect it would do very very well. i dont know it would surpass a tri-ad though.

course none of it matters as making a lock fail other than a defective one or poor handling is so rare.
 
Yeah, but any knife headed north of 300lbs in their test uses a lock I doubt will fail.

Jul 20, 2010 · A study of 12 karate black belts showed so-called reverse punches delivered an average force of 325 pounds, with the strongest measuring 412 pounds. Short-range power punches averaged 178 pounds.


Think about the force it would take to make a lock back fail. I mean do we literally need to take a knife to 500lbs or more to claim victory? I can't stand those claims.
 
Old news. "Everyone" knows the lockback is the strongest. (even if they won't admit it out loud)

jbmonkey jbmonkey
380 pounds is more weight than most people can put on a knife handle when using it, so why keep going?
Without using a "cheater bar", can someone who weighs 200 pounds put more than 200 pounds on the lock when using the knife ... even if they're using it to do pull ups like those morons in Cold Steel's videos?
 
I wonder why no one tests a knife with force pushing the knife against the blade as it would be used?
 
Old news. "Everyone" knows the lockback is the strongest. (even if they won't admit it out loud)

jbmonkey jbmonkey
380 pounds is more weight than most people can put on a knife handle when using it, so why keep going?
Without using a "cheater bar", can someone who weighs 200 pounds put more than 200 pounds on the lock when using the knife ... even if they're using it to do pull ups like those morons in Cold Steel's videos?
no ones disputing that. saying the tri-ad isnt an improvement on a great lock just cause it isnt needed or cause demko invented it and not someone else, just isnt true.

on pushing the blade towards the handle as in cutting.....the pivot would fail or the spring bar, stop pin...etc. the geometry of the blade wouldnt allow enough force typically to ever really be an issue to cause breaking of those parts.

in the end having an over engineered lock that doesnt cause a big price increase is never a bad thing. the bad thing is one cant get this lock on a buck.....yet.:)
 
Buck doesn't need that lock. They have a good lock. Although I would love to shove in the face of the ones who worship the triad. So testing a knife in the same direction it would be used isn't a more usefull test? Who the hell spine wacks over 380 lbs of force. Ill support CJ. He doesnt have short mans syndrome,:thumbsup:
 
The marksman has a lock that is over the top strong.

Feb 12, 2016#1

ZeroTurnDude
294
Jun 8, 2014
I finally decided to hard use my marksman

I started out with spine whacks to make sure it was safe just did small amount about 30 of them started soft then moved to very hard no issues

Then moved to wood I batoned through 2 2 x 8x4ft I think Douglasfir lots of Knotts made them in to half inch pices

then batoned the wood on its side in a V cut still no problem

Then I stabbed same wood my guess about 100 time and pry on tip a lil bit still no problem

The only thing That made the lock fail is when I set the knife on the table with the blade hanging off and hold on the rear of the knife and beat the front of it after a few the lock will fail but I put my hand on front of the handle so I'm pushing on the strap it will not

So if the knife is in the hand it pretty much a fixed blade


ZTD
 
If it's made in the USA I'm a buyer. Overseas forget it.

Buck 110 could be bought for less than 30 dollars. USA made. Stronger lock than needed and a history that can't be matched.
 
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I probably rant too much. I just think people put way too much into a lock. Most are more than enough to be safe.
 
I probably rant too much. I just think people put way too much into a lock. Most are more than enough to be safe.

yeah you missed what i was saying completely. you read what you wanted to, instead of what i said. the tri-ad is a stronger lock and an improvement to the backlock design. that's all i really said.

i didnt rave about other brands or anything else you seem to have assumed i did.....but i didnt.

im a huge buck fan and buyer. while i collect what i like and not only just the whole buck line that doesnt make me an anti-buck guy. hell im a life bcci member. i participate here more than i do anywhere else. why? cause i like buck as a company, and their products, and the folks here like yourself that are passionate on what the like and love. i believe buck is the best brand and company in the business. that doesnt mean i dont respect other companies and their products.

the backlock is a great strong lock. no one disputes that here so far and neither do i. the tri-ad is a great, stronger and improved back lock design.
 
Your a good guy, I'm not knocking that. I know your a Buck knife guy. But why would the Triad lock be brought up at all? There will always be a stronger lock. The lock on a 110 is stronger than it needs to be.
 
Your a good guy, I'm not knocking that. I know your a Buck knife guy. But why would the Triad lock be brought up at all? There will always be a stronger lock. The lock on a 110 is stronger than it needs to be.
i thought we were just talking strong locks. my fault, i got off topic too much and a bit out of line. better discussion for general not here. i apologize, and i take no offense Sir. i highly respect you. just discussing locks was all.

back on topic...wonder if buck fellas and gals have any plans for improving on backlock....not that it needs it...just cause innovaton never stops.
 
Darkera, If you ever go to stab something and you hit directly on a bone and your knife has a bad lock on it you'll understand. You'll have plenty of time to reflect while they're stitching your fingers up or even sewing them back on.
Very true, but something like that is when I'd grab a fixed blade.
 
Very true, but something like that is when I'd grab a fixed blade.

I would grab a fixed blade also. My fixed blade was 400 miles away and all I had was a 110. Even if you're in town and you need a self defense weapon and have a lockback, are you going to say I'll be right back I need to get a fixed blade knife just in case I hit a rib bone when I stab you? So a good lock is important and it's my belief that the 110 I had stood up to more punishment than any other lockback on the market. The knife still cut and would open and partially lock, but if you were cutting or slicing, for instance, a block of cheese it would close on you...
 
If I had a folder that was as strong as a fixed blade, I would carry a folder for the sheer convenience. Strong locks are a plus in my book. Just to add, I do not do foolish things with knives. I have too much love for my fingers. I have seen what foolishness will cost. Still, a strong lock is a comforting thing, as long as you do not try to do something you shouldn't do.
 
Sorry Pinnah, but I respectfully disagree...

It's simple geometry, really. The pivot pin is ahead of the lock bar. Any forced pressure on the cutting edge wouldn't raise the lock bar if the pivot was sloppy, it would do exactly the opposite and the lock bar would fall below the bolster, not rise above it.
Additionally; the blade stops rotating when it meets the lock-bar. At the same time, the lock bar engages the notch in the blade.
Really, there's not a whole lot that can go wrong with this design. If you have a 110 that is experiencing this, it should be repaired or replaced.
I've used and abused dozens of different 110s and have had dozens of them apart. From some of the oldest to some of the newest, I've not witnessed enough erosion of the parts on any of them to cause a serious failure.
I'm going out on a limb and guessing that 100% of the blades are harder than 100% of the lock bars. When that's the case, the blade could (and should) wear the face and locking tab on the lock-bar. Is this erosion enough to measure and effect the locking mechanism? Perhaps on a knife that is opened and closed a lot, but for these parts to deform from hard use; I ain't buyin' it.

View attachment 908082


MT_Pokt,

Thanks for posting the picture of the 110 internals, as that perfectly shows what I was describing.

Before I clarify, note that I own more lockbacks than any other style of knife - most of them Bucks. My assumption is that the phenomenon of lock rock is pretty well understood by most lockback enthusiasts. It's an issue that's been raised by many (other than me) on this and other forums. IMO, lockbacks make great hunting knives and make great EDC knives. I carry a 110 when I hunt and my 500 is in my regular EDC rotation. As with rifles and cars, no one design does all things. The lockback regularly wins tests on resisting strong closing forces and nothing I'm saying challenges any of that.

Note the interface between the blade tang notch and the front face of the lockbar up by the top red arrow and notice that is angled something like a "\" character. And now compare that to the same interface on any traditional slip joint like, say, the Buck 307 I'm carrying today, or perhaps a Sodbuster. You will see that on a slip joint, the angle vertical, like a "|" character.

If you slowly close a lockback like the aluminum bolstered 110 I have with me and compare it to how a slip joint closes, you can see why the lockback has a \ angle while a slip joint can use a |. On a slip joint, the cam shape to the blade's tang lowers the spring early, allowing the spring (bar) to be aligned with the stop face on the blade tang when they meet. In contrast, the lock bar on a lockback stays high as the hook of the lock bar rides over the rounded face of the tang and it doesn't drop into the notch until the very last. The \ angle allows that last drop to happen without hang up.

However, under hard cutting pressure the \ angle of the lockback will act like a wedge and that will cause the front of the lock bar to be lifted upwards relative to the spine of the blade. Generally speaking, slip joints don't develop vertical play unless they are very badly damaged. Also notice that if the lockbar is lifted high enough, the locking notches will no longer be aligned enough to catch. It is exactly as if the lock bar has been opened because it has.

In terms of wear, my experience is that lockbacks that develop lock rock continue to loosen up with use. As with many mechanical things, slop allows more slop to develop. Like many folks here, I've returned knives to Buck and yes, Buck is incredible with their warranty, but they've told me directly that the metal framed traditional lockbacks tend to hold up better compared to their plastic handled ones and that has certainly been my experience. My understanding (and by all means, Jeff Hubbard can correct me if I'm not understanding things right) is that having tight pivots for the blade and lock bar are critical.

In terms of the wear of fine blanked steels when used for lockbacks, I noted that that point was made by Sal Glassner of Spyderco in another BladeForums forum back before the conversion. Perhaps good search could dig it up again.

My only point was a small one and I don't think at all controversial. Lock strength is not just about resisting closing. It also involves being able to resist damage from strong cutting forces.

I've never owned a Cold Steel and have not plans to, but their Triad lock design seems to be a real honest evolutionary advancement on the lock back design that Buck popularized. Perhaps someday the patent will run out and Buck will incorporate it.

TriadDiagram.gif
 
I wonder why no one tests a knife with force pushing the knife against the blade as it would be used?
I wonder this too.
I have a knife with no retention mechanism of any kind that doesn't close on me during use because force pushes the blade in the open position when cutting.
 
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