Buck 119 hard use; could the 5160 version stand up?

G

G III

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Nov 20, 2015
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Hi all!

Well, I couldn't believe the timing, and couldn't pass up the opportunity, to own the 80th ever buck 119 in 5160 (or even carbon steel at all?)! And wow, what a beauty, especially with the phenolic/brass, I love synthetic handles, and the extra weight over the aluminum feels great in hand.

But I love my 119 (which I got maybe a month before I found these) and always wanted to use it as my woods knife. Except, I like to baton. I know, not necessary in any way shape or form. But whatever makes us happy right? I mean, most of us wouldn't need a knife at all most days I'd wager.

While I know 420hc isn't bad (my LMF II will split boulders) the edge geometry isn't exactly robust, and I worry about the extra hard Bos HT (but mostly the edge geometry). My question is, do you guys think the 5160 version (which I assume would be 57-58 like other buck 5160) could hold up? I'm not going to wail on it, but should the mood strike, do you think it'll withstand the test of time? I have a fairly good sense of material strength, and can usually tell about what a piece of metal etc. can take. Batoning is tough, however, as you can never really tell when it'll deflect or something unexpected.

I think y'all get about what I'm driving at. I don't want to abuse it. But I do want to use it. Is the design prohibitive, or can the 5160 make up for it? Or is the tang transition too harsh, the grind just too thin?

Thanks everyone, and I hope to have pics sorted out by week's end :) Man, are buck knives lookers or what?
 
The 119's 5160 blade will be tougher than the 420HC blade, but will have far worse rust-resistance. If you live on the coast like me, this might be a problem due to the high levels of moisture in the air.
 
Oh no worries on that front, I'm a huge carbon steel fan, from moras to beckers, OKC to (now) buck!

Thanks for the tip though, always appreciate solid advice!
 
It probably will as long as you are reasonable about what you are battoning and have decent technique, But... It will use way more energy than its worth and It is a ridiculous way to use a knife. Particularly one that is designed as a general camp and hunting blade.
If splitting wood with a knife makes you happy, use a Becker... Or better yet, use an axe / hatchet.
 
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Yeah, I think I'll just start using it, see what happens :) The fact that people have done it with their 420 versions, and that nobody has jumped in with a huge *NO*, I think it'll be okay.

I'm not using it as a splitting axe, perhaps the 'hard use' in my title was misleading. I just like to baton sticks sometimes. Regardless of what knife you're using to baton, it's almost always because you want to, not necessary. I do use my beckers to, but I like to carry all of my knives, and I really really like this buck.

I was mostly wondering about the mechanical properties of 420HC and 5160, if the 5160 had the edge stability to hold up with the high hollow.

Thanks for the input guys!
 
While no one can predict how you will actually use the 5160 119, it sounds as if you will be completing tasks, outside of what the knife was designed to be used for, a larger hunting knife. You have another knife you seem to use for harder use bushcraft type chores, the 119 is primarily a hunting knife and should last forever if used as such. The right tool for the right job is my thought.
Just my two cents.
 
I've seen some pretty hard use on you tube with the standard 119s. One guy battoned threw a log sideways chopping it in half, not splitting. What your describing sounds mild enough. I'd go for if you want.
 
I'm going to be honest. I'm 43 and up to about 7 years ago I never even considered batoning with a knife. It wasn't until I started looking at ESEE's and Bark Rivers that I even heard of someone doing it. I have batoned my ESEE's and BarkRivers through some pretty thick stuff.

I personally would be very very careful batoning a Buck. I would only use it on smaller stuff. Not because I think Buck lacks quality but because of the thin hollow grind. Its just not desighned for that. (unless of course you have one of the Hood knives)

I have a confession to make. About 7 years when I was going through a "phase" I thought all of my knives had to be able to baton or they were not "up to par". I did some light batoning and chopping with a S30v Vanguard. It handled it fine. Somewhere on this forum a review is buried on it. I will say this while it handled it fine I think it was foolish on my part. Honestly they only reason I think now I would baton a Buck is in a life and death survival situation. In that case who cares if I ruin my knife as long as I live.

This is just my 2 cents so take it for what is worth.
 
I use my 119 Brahma to baton small to medium size logs all the time, its holding up just fine. I don't have any experience using a s30v blade, but I haven't had an issue with the Brahma in 420hc yet. As with anything in life, exercise common sense and you should be fine.
 
They use 5160 for rotary lawn mower blades and it is tough stuff. Buck has some of the best heat treat technology so I wouldn't worry about it at all. Not to mention, one of the best warranties.
 
I have camped, hunted, and fished from Florida to Alaska for 50 or more years and I have never batoned with a knife. I have cut small trees down with a 110 and some other knives, but by slicing, not batoning. If you need to hack through some wood get a light hatchet or small axe.
 
I have a 119 420HC. I've never asked it to do anything I don't expect a knife to do which is slicing, dicing, cleaning game, camp kitchen use etc. I also have a Becker BK2. Tearing it up would be like trying to tear up a crowbar. Different strokes
 
Wow, this got bigger!

Thanks for all the input!

Again, I know batoning is pointless. Utterly so. I don't baton huge hardwood logs. Just like, <3" sticks. I'm also aware it isn't designed for it, and am aware the high hollow is the issue. I wasn't asking if it was good for a splitting wedge, just if you thought it would snap right off.

Plenty of good food for thought though! I'll probably hold off for now though, it's (finally) starting to get cold, and cold+thin geometry+batoning? No thanks. But it is great to use, love this knife!
 
Battoning isn't evil and it's not abusive. People have been battoning to split wood for centuries and centuries. Do a google search on the history of the splitting froe. Battoning offers some advantages using an axe/hatchet. The tool is lighter. It's safer when you're tired.

But, I agree with Kyhunt and others that a hollow ground knife is a particularly poor choice for this. I also find deep clip points to be a problem, as the up-curved tip is a problem when battoning it.

For small stuff, I would look at the Buck Selkirk (which should really be made in teh US, please...) and for bigger stuff, the new Buck Froe. The Tops designed knives like the Punk are also worth looking at.


Edited to add... IMO, it's not that battoning is pointless. It's that building fires in the backcountry is generally, well, if not pointless at least entirely optional. Using a camp stove is easy, reliable, generally produces less localized impact on the wild land (no fire rings or scorched scars) and lighter (no need for heavy tools). For car camping where weight doesn't matter, then it's easy to just bump up to a large saw and axe. When we car camp, we're more likely to be spliting purchased firewood too, so an axe makes sense.

The one place I carry a knife in the woods to batton is on winter cross-country day trips. On these trips, I want a light stove that can be run over night in the case of an emergency, so I carry an Emberlit stove. These run on small fires and can be fed on easy to harvest dead fall and small branches. But in wet winter conditions, splitting the wood makes sense. The combination of the Emberlit, knife and a small folding saw is lighter than a white gas stove and full bottle of fuel and can burn longer should I get forced into an over night bivy situation.

Hot Chocolate by Pinnah, on Flickr
 
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Regardless of the blade steel the 119 Special was designed as a hunting knife and not a survival knife, hard use knife or even a camping knife. While it might handle other uses it wasn't designed for it so were it me i'd find another Buck model to use.
 
While I do appreciate all the reminders that the 119 isn't designed for it, the question isn't if it's the appropriate tool. I myself said I know it was not designed for such use. The question was whether or not 5160's improved toughness would mean an acceptably low chance of failure over the 420 version.

And since I see people also baton their 420, it should be fine, as I use careful technique, and small pieces of wood. I'm aware the Selkirk, froe, etc. are more proper for this type of use, but that's irrelevant as I don't have them, and don't particularly want or like the look of them. I do, however, love the 119, which is why I bought this knife, to hopefully have one that can do a little more (and I prefer carbon steel in general).

Thanks, once again to all who have shared their insight, despite the avoidance of my question haha :)
 
I've used high carbon steels on the coast for a long time. If your not against changing the color of your pretty blade, you can force a patina on the blade and it will fend off rust much better than leaving the steel naked. Maybe its my imagination but it seems to work for me, and my carbon steel knives. I cover the blade in a thin coat of Yellow Mustard and leave it on the surface of the blade for a few hours. It turns the blade almost black and with a good wash, the blade has a nice dark patina, and seems to not rust much at all, if any. I live on the west coast, near salt water and it works for me...
 
Matt,

Did you discover this by accident when you were fixing a hotdog with mustard? Maybe it's the vinegar in the mustard.

Bert
 
That is it. I made some knives of 01 steel and they will do the same thing. (turn black) which I clean off, as it's used in the kitchen) 01 also leaves a foul taste to items cut with it. 5160 may not do that as it has more elements in it. DM
 
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