Buck 420 HC steel

I had trouble with the Buck edges back in the seventies and eighties but part of the problem were my soft Arkansas stones for reprofiling or thinning the edge which I did not really understand at the time. After some education from Wayne Goddard and Steve Dick thru Blade and Tactical knives and John Juranitch book on sharpening it helped. Also, I bought a 12 inch Norton India stone which I love. Back to Buck, the edges in the last few years have been much better and are easier to sharpen. I think the edge 2000 process is better.

RKH
 
I have a Buck Omni Hunter 10p, and was almost on the verge of setting it on fire, because the edge on it, after touching it up, went from razor sharp to brick dull almost instantly. When I buy a larger knife, one way I like to test the edge is to murder water bottles, and my Omni Hunter was totally dulled with 3 slashes through 3 thin bottles. I reprofiled the edge to a 25° angle, and the blade is a bit sharper than out was, looks better, and has much better edge retention (which is still bad compared to my other knives with steels like SK-5, 440C, and 1095 carbon). Thinking my knife has a faulty temper.
 
Cold Kill said:
I have a Buck Omni Hunter 10p, and was almost on the verge of setting it on fire, because the edge on it, after touching it up, went from razor sharp to brick dull almost instantly. When I buy a larger knife, one way I like to test the edge is to murder water bottles, and my Omni Hunter was totally dulled with 3 slashes through 3 thin bottles. I reprofiled the edge to a 25° angle, and the blade is a bit sharper than out was, looks better, and has much better edge retention (which is still bad compared to my other knives with steels like SK-5, 440C, and 1095 carbon). Thinking my knife has a faulty temper.
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I don't think your knife has a bad heat treat.

Buck supplies their blades with a very fine edge (less than 15° per side), combined with their tempering to 58HRC. This combination is optimized for slicing flesh, not chopping plastic. The knife is, after all, called the "Omni HUNTER".

For chopping plastic (very tough on blade steel) a more oblique angle such as 25° will hold up better than a thin angle because there is more steel to support the cutting edge. For chopping plastic, 420HC is not an optimum material.

IF you just measure the edge retention of the alloy, 420HC holds an edge less well than 440C, 1095, or SK5. This is not due to heat treat, but to alloy composition.

If you are going to chop plastic on a routine basis, switch to a different alloy.
 
I just bought a buck pak-lite, and the edge looks a lot better. Will post after I test it out some.
 
For a working knife in the real world I'm actually pretty fond of Buck's 420HC it's easy to resharpen and a lot less likely to chip or break than a lot of "Super Steels" however it does leave a bit desired when it comes to edge retention.
 
Jaundice said:
First post here:

I'm not a knife knut by any definition, but I'm miles ahead of the average knife user. I've been reading here and learning.

So I'm reading the steel FAQ, and I see that 420 stainless is considered an inferior steel for knives. I'm confused. Buck makes their legendary 110 out of 420HC, and the stock answer seems to be that this steel, "properly heat treated", can be considered "adequate steel".

So, how good is the buck heat treated 420HC? How does it compare to 440C in edge retention, hardness, wear resistance, and durability to 440C?

(Now that I'm learning, I consider 440C or AUS-8A the minimum steel I want for a knife)

One more question, I have a 1990 Buck 110 that I've read should be made out of 425 stainless. How does this compare to both 440C and 420HC? Should I shelve it in favor of a newer model?

Thanks,

-John
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Buck heat treatment is always the best. They do not have wide steel selection but steels from them always show better performance then same from others.
See edge holding test here:

http://playground.sun.com/~vasya/Manila-Rope-Results.html

As you may see Buck 420HC stay as good as some overhyped/overpriced steels.
 
Well I am breaking down, returning the Pak-lite, and buying a Buck 119 Special. I hope it gives my Ka-Bar a run for it's money!
Edit: All of your praises of Buck and their steel have worn me down.
 
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Buck's heat treat is ledgendary for sure. I have a small Vantage select (420hc) and a small Pro (s30v) and i perfer the 420hc (nothing wrong with the s30v) so i switched the handle slabs love g-10 and 420hc.
 
A little accidental research (just kind of stubled upon it), and I found out one big reason why my Omni Hunter dulled so fast: the edge I put on it was with an extremely fine grit stone (has to be over 1000) and apparently the edge for slashing is a coarse, ugly edge, and a pretty, shiny, sharp edge is for controlled slicing and "lateral cutting". Well know I know, and knowing is half the battle!
 
foodwish said:
Title: SPAM HASHBROWN BAKE
Categories: Main dish
Yield: 8 Servings

1.00 pk Frozen hashbrown potatoes,
-thawed slightly (32 oz)
0.50 c Butter or margarine, melted
1.00 t Salt
1.00 t Pepper
0.50 t Garlic powder
2.00 c Shredded Cheddar cheese
1.00 cn SPAM Luncheon Meat, cubed
-(12 oz)
1.00 cn Cream of chicken soup
-(10 3/4 oz)
1.50 c Sour cream
0.50 c Milk
0.50 c Chopped onion
0.25 c CHI-CHI's Diced Green
-Chilies, drained
2.00 c Crushed potato chips

Heat oven to 350'F. In large bowl, combine potatoes, melted butter,
salt, pepper, and garlic powder. In another bowl, combine cheese,
SPAM, soup, sour cream, milk, onion, and green chilies. Add SPAM
mixture to potato mixture; mix well. Pour into 2-quart baking dish.
Sprinkle with potato chips. Bake 45-60 minutes or until thoroughly
heated.
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Thats why this idiot was banned
 
I had the devil's own time sharpening a Buck 120 I bought in 1971- not sure as to the steel, could have been 440C(?). Was using arkansas stones- finally I got the little blade guide hat Buck used to sell- that clamps to the blade, setting the correct angle- and proceeded to get fine edges... carried that 120 as my main HUNTING knife for 40 years, till it sprouted legs and walked off....
 
DunRanull said:
I had the devil's own time sharpening a Buck 120 I bought in 1971- not sure as to the steel, could have been 440C(?). Was using arkansas stones- finally I got the little blade guide hat Buck used to sell- that clamps to the blade, setting the correct angle- and proceeded to get fine edges... carried that 120 as my main HUNTING knife for 40 years, till it sprouted legs and walked off....
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In 1971 Buck was using 440C. Arkansas stones don't normally work well on it because the Chromium carbides in 440C are harder than the stone.
Those early Bucks were really thick behind the edge. At the time, 440C was considered brittle, hard to work with, and exotic, so they reinforced the edge. A far dry from the super hollow grind they use today. I can imagine that if you tried to thin out the edge you would not get very far with it.
 
knarfeng said:
In 1971 Buck was using 440C. Arkansas stones don't normally work well on it because the Chromium carbides in 440C are harder than the stone.
Those early Bucks were really thick behind the edge. At the time, 440C was considered brittle, hard to work with, and exotic, so they reinforced the edge. A far dry from the super hollow grind they use today. I can imagine that if you tried to thin out the edge you would not get very far with it.
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Lol, those early 110s were a pistol to sharpen. Brings back memories. You’re spot on . While they look similar to the original many younger folks don’t know they made close to forty improvements over the years.
 
Necro thread! I will add that 420 HC is very corrosion resistant. I have used it as my salt water kayaking knife with minimal staining. All I did was rinse in fresh water after use.
 
dogstar said:
Necro thread! I will add that 420 HC is very corrosion resistant. I have used it as my salt water kayaking knife with minimal staining. All I did was rinse in fresh water after use.
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I found a 119 down in the bilges of a salt water fishing boat on the west coast a few years back, probably belonged to one of the crew. It likely had been sloshing around down there for some time, but there was no corrosion. I dried it off and it looked good as new. Left it on the boat to be retrieved by its owner (who didn't deserve it IMHO).
 
Two knives from the '80s I still bring out occasionally: Buck 112 and Gerber Bolt Action. Very different concepts in knives. The Gerber I sharpened to a small angle and honed sharp enough to shave. It stays sharp even after years in the drawer. The Buck was sharpened at a thicker angle so its sturdier. It doesn't shave but dang, it's a tough blade. I use it for slicing, cutting all sorts of stuff in the house, even whittle hard bamboo. I'm convinced 420HC is one of the best user steels out there.
 
When I talked to the plumbers and A/C installers that did work on my house, they have knives, but very cheap knives. They lose them so often, that what was most commonly carried were box cutters knives. As one HVAC guy said "I spend $5.00 and see how long it lasts". The plumber had a fake, stag handled fixed blade knife, that was given to him. And he had never sharpened it, used primarily as a pry bar.

Do you think the owners of these knives cared about the blade steel, or that they did not have a screw driver?

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Few people care about the steels, only care about the price point. Few people have decent sharpening stones, so those who buy cheap, and have cheap sharpening equipment are happy with the softer steels. How the heck do you sharpen D2 on a three inch washita stone,

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What do you think kept Florindo DiPinto gainfully employed?

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It was people who needed their knives and scissors sharpened, because they could not do that themselves.

Buck makes an excellent knife for the price point. Their steels are hard enough, if not too hard, for the general population. Don't get hung up on type of steel, find the steel that is appropriate for the job.
 
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Since this thread has been revived, the budget market has changed a lot. Yes, Buck's 420HC is better than your average 420HC. It might be the best 420HC most of us will ever experience. However, it's still 420HC. Its performance is going to be eclipsed by steels like 14C28N and 9Cr18Mov.

Coincidentally, WE has done for 9Cr18Mov what the Bos heat treatment did for Buck's 420HC. Already starting from a better place, WE's 9Cr18Mov in the Civivi and Sencut knives is capable of edge retention a lot closer to mass-production knives in S30V or S35VN.

While Buck offers other options, I feel like Leatherman is stuck in the past on this one. They have a couple of models that use either 154CM or S30V but most of their multi-tools still use a 420HC knife blade. That's a deal-breaker for me in $100ish multi-tools.
 
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