Buck-cote Testing

amacks

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Messages
675
I remember reading when the Buck-cote knives were first released that you did some testing, and had some done in England(?) to determine if there really was an increase in edge holding, and that the results were astounding. Can you post those results here, or at least give a summary? I'm also interested in how the blades were tested.
Aaron

------------------
Why did you stab that girl?
You won't believe this, but I had too much coffee!
-Edmond by David Mamet
aaronm@cs.brandeis.edu
 
Yes we did test the Buckcote. The england connection is that we used the CATRA tester.
Results were quite good, let me find the data, and I'll post what I can. I don't wanna give any #'s w/o checking 1st...

Jeff

------------------
Jeff "Without data it's just another opinion" Hubbard
 
With your BuckCote rated with Rockwell C hardness from 85-100, does this make it extremely hard to sharpen?
 
ANY independent test data or reviews from owners of the TI-coat Buck series GREATLY appreciated. So far as I'm concerned, the fit and finish on the Crosslocks is right up there with Benchmade BUT the 425 steel...well...let's be honest. It ain't in the same class. If the TI-coat really works, the TI Crosslocks would kick rear end as a "sheeple friendly gent's utility folder" that could still fight in a pinch.

You can see these beasties here:

http://www.agrussell.com/buck/buckcote.html

The Solitaire Hunter is particularly appealing to me. One question, how hard would it to take the end of the hook tool and turn it into a "wood chisel type end"? Maybe a diamond grinding wheel could do such a conversion? Would there still be enough steel around to support the hook when cutting something like a seatbelt after such a mod?

This piece is far more appealing to me than similar sized/priced Spydercos or Benchmades but without independent info on the TI performance I've held off.

Who else besides AGRussell sells these?

Jim March
 
Titan,

Sharpening is relativly easy... Do not touch the Ti side of the edge grind.

Put the steel side against you sharpening meduim and sharpen until you raise a burr. Go back on th TI side ever so lightly just until the burr is gone. Try not to remove any TI. If you do, start over on the steel side. You want the TI to be at the point of the edge. The soft steel wears faster than the TI so the blade will stay sharp until the TI rolls over into it. The touch up the steel side and so on...

Jeff
Of course since I'm sharpening impaired, I have the shop do it for me, but that is what they do...

------------------
Jeff "Without data it's just another opinion" Hubbard
 
The CATRA tester, is that the thing that uses a roll of special paper, and test the length of time before the blade is dull?
Aaron


------------------
Why did you stab that girl?
You won't believe this, but I had too much coffee!
-Edmond by David Mamet
aaronm@cs.brandeis.edu
 
Cool...so last question is, who's actually used one o' these pups
biggrin.gif
?

Jim March
 
Jim, if all goes well, I should have a ti coated Buck 110Z5 to test before too long. I'm gonna include it in a test of a bunch of other similar shaped knives and post the results somewhere on these many forums. More on that later.

Jeff, no offense, but aren't you really just telling a portion of the story about the ease of sharpening ti coated anything? What I'm getting at is sure it's easy to sharpen assuming a non-damaged egde, but what happens when one dings or dents the edge? Your boss mentioned that to me in email and that aspect is one of the primary things that I hope to test, since a knife that maintains a good edge, but can't be field repaired if dinged is of little use to the average hunter. (I'm actually hoping that I'm quite wrong on that aspect, but I'm not the one that first suggested it, either.
smile.gif


Cheers,
mps
 
Hmmm...well, for the role I'm looking at, "repairs from a massive ding" isn't all that big an issue. I'm looking more for a "gent's folder barely acceptable at the office" and capable of tasks in the "light work but ULTRA sharp" range.

Hell, for serious field use I've got a Mad Dog ATAK-type (WSP1).

I'm most interested in "how vorpal an edge" it's got and how well it holds in cutting paper, cloth, leather and such. I've got other stuff that could gut a boar.

Jim March
 
The impression I've gotten from posts I've seen is it can't be made ultra sharp -- it's a mediocre edge (by our standards) that lasts a long time.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
Erm. Hmmm. That's not great news, considering the role I'm looking at. Is it possible to use ultrafine grit diamond hones to get "an edge directly on the coating of smaller width than the coat"? Given the hardness of the coat I'm assuming diamond would be essential.

If it CAN take a "wow" edge, even if it's a delicate edge, I'm interested. If not, I'll have to see one personally before judging.

Jim March
 
All,
I'm working on digging up all our test data before I comment on testing levels vs 'normal'edges.
MPS I did not mean to imply that sharpening was easy. (although I did say it was relativly easy) Sharpening is always hard. But it is not as tough has it might appear. TI can and is tricky to sharpen (which is why I don't do it myself). A big ding can be removed by recutting the steel side to such a point that the ding is removed. This can result in a lot of material to be removed. probably not practical with a home setup, might need to be ground or re-edged alot to get above the ding.(I think that is what my boss was saying).

We are very interested in field feedback so that we can relate it to the lab testing we did. Data in the real world beats lab data anyday...

CATRA edge test is a controlled paper cutting test.



------------------
Jeff "Without data it's just another opinion" Hubbard
 
Hi Jim, Jeff,
I've got the 110 with the gray Buckote. Ican shave hair with either the obverse or reverse side up. So if anyone wants it sharper, I'd like to know why? I used it quite a bit on the trapline this winter and I must say that while I had doubts about the duribility when I got the knife, I don't now!!!!
Master Series soon to be a thing of the past......bummer. I think it was a marketing and distribution problem. If it wasn't for the internet I never would have knowen about them at all!!! I'm sure glad that I was at least able to get the 110.
Dan
 
I don't have any first hand knowledge of the Buckcote's durability except for this: I special ordered two of the mod. 119's for a pro guide from Wyoming. He said he'd used them extensively on elk and they'd held their edge better than anything else he'd used, by about a factor of two. I don't remember if he said what else he'd used, so take this with a grain-or brick, if you prefer-of salt. I think the Master series suffered from two problems: first, many of my customers were confused by the similarity of the Buck Master Series and the Buckmaster names. And nobody seemed to like the green handles. A more neutral shade of stain would have gone over better.

------------------
A flute with no holes is not a flute, but a donut with no holes, is a danish.
 
Buck worked with Molecular Metalulrgy Incorporated for over 3 years on this blade enhancing process. We initially were looking for surface lubricity for action and corroision resistance. We had such bad history with Titanium coatings we were very cautious. The edgeholding aspect fell out of these experiments. We learned that if we sharpened a knife, then coated the blade, then resharpened only one side we got lab results of 200 times edge life.

The C.A.T.R.A. machine, pictured in our catalog, tests how deep a blade cuts up through a stack of abrasive paper. It then graphs the distance into a curve that can be used to compare both initial sharpness (how deep was the initial cut) as well as edge holding (how deep was the 50th or 200th cut).

We tested ATS34, ATS55, BG42,440C,425M and 420HC. Plus a few others. The engineers who were reponsible for this testing have both left the company so Jeff is collecting the research. It would qualify for it's own thread.

I have given as guide tips our Model 691 zippers with Zrn coating (champagne). This is Zirconium instead of Titanium. It is a little harder then Titanium. The elk guide told me he usually gets 2/3rds through an animal before he touches up his knife. He completed my elk, gutted, skinned and quartered and it was still sharp. I have given this same style knife to a hog ranch we have hunted on. He has gotten 5 hogs plus without a resharpening. He said usually one sharpening per hog. He is Doug Roth from Camp 5 up near Paso Robles Ca.

We tested serrations with and without coating. Serrated blades underperform initially but last forever. A Buckcoted serration was simply immune to abuse.

We are working with MMI on new coatings which would handle the corrosion resistance but have not found the magic combination yet, elements, layers...etc. Technology marches on...
 
Back
Top