Buck Historians

[BG42EDGE]

Well, Bill......you just kinda messed up the legend that the 1980 Three-Dot 110 was the last of the 440C and the first heat treated by Bos.

I always loved that legend.....even though it seemed unlikely in some ways.

And do you remember that the 440C was tearing up the equipment when you started up at Weld in August?

 

[110 Dave]

hummm .. this is .. of intrest
that paul worked at the place that was ht bucks knives then moved
but is it still 4 dots mean 425m ...
three dots 440c
and yes it does not any buck watchers that the last of 440c may not have been used for another year
even some 3 dot blades may have been put in knives as late as 83..
the crystal ball for bucks history is .... less clear then a shooter marble ...
when i first question if a inverted 3 liner migh exist i was told - no
this is why i dont debate as facts any thing about buck
only what is accepted by many or i am told
dont know why some one would get wrote up for a finger groved 110 long ago
jest told by the line engener that they were .. forboden

 

[BG42EDGE]

Well, Dave......the Three-Dots and earlier (the 440C 110s) are .115 in thickness.

The Four-Dots (425MOD) are .120 in thickness.

So.....if you find a Three-Dot that measures .120 you should have a 425MOD Three-Dot, right?

Conversely, if you find a Four-Dot that measures .115 you should have a 440C Three-Dot, right?

Personally, I don't believe that Buck would be stupid enough to intentionally tear up their equipment by running 440C through it for more than a day or so.

Excess bulk 440C would be sold off......not run through equipment that couldn't handle it.

We still need to hear from Paul Bos about exactly when he started heat treating (just to verify the kick in the head that Bill gave to the Three-Dot legend).

 

[110 Dave]

now my bubbled headed frriend
ya knows i dont think so
'cuse i really have been side bucks current factory and looked at all the old timey equiptment
dey is a useing .. and
gee wizer feller i cut my teath on some o dat machinery!!
many of the same machines i worked on in a copple o factorys .. can ya guess which?
used the exact same engerning set up .. old fashon real limit switches ..griinder wheels
disks indexing tables and gooooood old fashon steepting motors
hee hee i could go to work dere and be worth my money in less then a week
i was more wanting to talk to de dang fixers then the operators
heck i could have stepted up and been makeing good parts in less den a dang hr

so no i dont think that machines dat was a stamping out 440C would have broke a sweet
stamping out 425M
as to the thick ness o a dang blade
wells that is only a mater of grinding if need be
as to the great big machines that does de dang stamping
well .. a tiney winsey .005 would not make a tinkers dammmmm to
a 20 ton press.. i reminds ya to go check out some feeler gages to set that
image in your head if you would ...
taint much at tall
cides check it out i "think" ya migh find a thread were dey was a stamping ax's..
nope tant that senstive equiptment .. so dont go a thinking like every one else ..
cause dey is a thinking highly engennered exato jest a smigen over what is min needed..
not make it big so it wont break
nope ... been dere and done jest ex-ax-a-lee some place else i have
as i said onced opon a time as to tang stamps
dere be a smigen of diff every time dey change dies
most folks dont cares as i did..
yep tit would be nice to know.. but it be ax-a-dem-ic
fer de most part .. dont ya knows
but sure nufff ifn ya finds some one to say dis is the way it were
most likely i could finds some one else dat says it were slighty diff then dat
but keep up dat dang good diging you is doing
you may find a bone wit meat still on it yet!!!
so fer ya tanint been no place dat i taint been yets...
but does have some diff questions i reckon...
and by my figureing ya gots a ways to go to catch up wit me
not braging now ya hears
jest facts...
now i sure hopes ya dont loose your drive on this quest ye be on sonny boy
as i sure woods liken to see you finishe it
i would post some names ya could check with but not fair to put der names out here like dat
every thing i learneded from them i crossed my heart to not tell dey were the ones let the cat outa de bag
so sorry i cant helps ya none
could be i get a hair cross wises and writ me a book called the unoffical buck book
caio

 

[BG42EDGE]

Translation:

Dave doesn't know either.

 

[110 Dave]

well again gee wizz but i do think i have a clue ..

Well, Dave......the Three-Dots and earlier (the 440C 110s) are .115 in thickness.
The Four-Dots (425MOD) are .120 in thickness.
So.....if you find a Three-Dot that measures .120 you should have a 425MOD Three-Dot, right?
Conversely, if you find a Four-Dot that measures .115 you should have a 440C Three-Dot, right?

agan .. it is the thickness set to the machine that grinds the sides of blades
.005 is not much as i said.. been there ... have you?
dand there you go thinking like every one else..

Personally, I don't believe that Buck would be stupid enough to intentionally tear up their equipment by running 440C through it for more than a day or so.

from what i have seen were i have fixed 20 ton presses i will beg to differ with you
again .005 is not much
and buck did not get were they are being stupid
ask billy bates .. if you wish to on that

Excess bulk 440C would be sold off......not run through equipment that couldn't handle it.

see pre quote

We still need to hear from Paul Bos about exactly when he started heat treating (just to verify the kick in the head that Bill gave to the Three-Dot legend).

yep if'n he would .. would be nice ta hear from him!
tell then i still belive in Bos heat treated 440C was last made on 3 dots
but dat dont mean 440 wernt usee in de custom shop fer a few years later!

but ya is right ... i dont knows fer fact most any thing that i was told ..
when it is told to me i by informed sorces i will say i belive ..

but
if i whitness it or did it i will say fact then but not on hearsay
i do know what i learned fixing machinery by the same companys buck uses
i do know that i converted many from hundrids of relays to PLC and prox sw's

and seen what it takes to break one ..
so i stand by my experance and in my mind do not think it made a diffrence to the big equiptment
the change in steel
i will tell you that that dont mean there was NOT issues
i KNOW that it will take "set up people"
a hell of a time to adjust to the diffrences in thickness and hardness of the materals

and if not set up correctly yes they can cause bad parts and machine failure
not tore up by the materal but from inexperanced on set ups part and operator gaining new skills in working with the diffrent steel
btw can you tell the diff in 440c and 425m?
do you know how to read spark?
so while i dont KNOW
i do have a clue
i sujest you get the dvd on buck and watch it
see how they are made
except for the laser i worked on some thing like almost every thing they use
question is
have you ?
and note i can if need be say were it was at that i worked on it
so no i was not jest a nuc worker or jest a hv trican
i mastered several skills
cepten english ... was a watchen jenny lee or mary jo to much..
caio

 

[BG42EDGE]

Translation:

Dave has a clue but is unable to share it in a coherent way.



So where is Bos or any other of the old timers?

There must be somebody left who can nail down some accurate dates.

Is Wilde Bill correct in saying that no Buck 440C ever got the Bos heat treat?

Bos should be able to clear that question up in about one minute.

 

[Pack Rat]

IN My research for BuckMaster Knives The Authorized History -of- Models 184 & 185 . I had MANY conversations with Paul. I know that he Heat Treated Buck knives when Frank Buck(God rest his SOUL) was around. I am not sure when he passed..
Was he an employee of BUCK Knives NO however he heat treated for Buck and many others for years before he was on payroll..

Frank Buck - Chuck's younger brother - Buck Customer Service Manager - Auto accident - July 1974 (pg 51 Tom Ables The Story of Buck Knives)

fwiw..

 

[BG42EDGE]

Thanks.

Yes, we really should hear from Paul Bos on the question of the move and the question of whether or not he did heat treating of the Buck 440C in 1980 (in house or from another location).

That would be nice to know.

Where is he?