Buck should make a Barlow.

From my experiences with them, if Buck outsourced stuff to Bear & Sons, the quality would be a huge step down from the Chinese imports........
 
pinnah said:
Bear and Sons has found a steel worse than 420J2? ;)
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I could live with that, if they could fit it to handle scales without gaps big enough to read a newspaper through. :)

I've tried to support Bear & Sons, since they are one of the few remaining traditional slipjoint makers, but I've sorted through 40-50+ knives in a store at a time, on several occasions and left without buying, because their fit & finish is just horrible.
 
I agree, I don't care for Bear $ Sons F/F, nor do I like the 420j2 steel. Not sure who would be a good canidate for the out sourcing gig...
 
Pinnah, Matt and Bear Claw all say stuff that is true to me. The post started as a Barlow post so lets make something clear to newer Buck folks that are also Barlow people. The discontinued Barlows with Buck stamping on them were ALL made by Camillus and not Buck. They were special orders by SMKWs for their catalog(s). SMKWs went thru a period where they ordered and sold several special Buck marked models made by Cami and sold only by them. You will also never convince me it was all about just money, I think some people were trying to keep a 'era' alive.

I am going to likely stick my foot in my mouth but, Buck has had a long history of out-sourcing its folding knife sales. These knives received a watchful eye from Buck, but were made by trusted members of the American knife manufactures community. As I have heard it they did not go lightly across the ocean, but worked hard at receiving assurances from their contractors that their overseas production would be made to a standard expected of a Buck knife. In general I think many of you would agree that has happened. I won't argue over metal used for blades because it is one of my weak areas of knowledge. I would say the company mentioned above for outsourcing is a American company, I would need more assurance that past Buck standards be the norm, not what I have seen of there own work.

But, Buck is a company for profit. We have seen Schrade and Camillus and others go under. My opinion only, is that production effort is more in knives that sell to a younger market. Knives that compete in the semi-tac market. Knives like Vantages, Marksmen and the Ron Hood knives. You old farts don't buy enough stockmen to be a market force. Look at the BCCI 301 with BG -42 blades, as a member of the BCCI board it was a project I jumped on when suggested by Larry Oden. But, most of the older board members were wiser than me. Only 200 knives were made and we/I had heck in getting them sold. I said right off the bat they would sell out in 60 days, boy was I wrong. The concept here is that changing expensive tooling, of even creating a different production concept, say like jigged bone scales, costs money. The the non-lock folders (301,303,309 and 305) are made either with scales that are heat set (sawcut valox) or scales that are laminated wood and riveted to liner. What differences you have seen in the past were just some tweeks of these two lines.

Any special offers will likely have to fit in those production line methods. New models like a Barlow will require purchase of new tooling to shape and stamp blades and form bolsters and liners. In the current knife world a nice lockback is more likely to make money than a Barlow or stockman. This is all my opinion, I am not in the industry, just a collector. What the overseas people have is not my concern, I never buy them.

I have aged enough that some different metal for blades or some different scale material once in a while will make me happy for the USA made models. I will confess after all this talk I still like and buy 303s, but carry a 309 (and buy) in my watch pocket and a 345 Vantage is clipped to my back pocket, to guard my wallet. So I guess I have one tacky leg and a barely traditional hip.

300
 
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Just a side note on the Barlow. Camillus made Barlows for several companies. Craig and I did some neat research and found that the Buck Barlows were made in the exact likeness as the Remington Barlows. Buck even usesd the Remington Grandaddy Barlow ( jigged Bone) as an example for what they (Buck) wanted in their Large Barlow. I hope I got that right. Craig correct me if I fouled that up...
 
You hit the target dead center Matt. 300



This is front of the knife you thought of, I believe.


This is the back side


This is why it says Musket - 1.






Hey, if you want a Buck Barlow you can always make your own.

 
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I knew Schrade and Camillus made the early 300s, and always wondered what the point was of having another maker put your name on their knife. Maybe to see if they would sell before investing in the tooling?

Anyway, blessed be Buck for continuing to make the high quality low cost slippies they do. (I still need a 301 in Dymondwood.)

I got my domestic stainless Barlow (Utica Adirondack), and have a hunch why the pattern fell from favor: too little for a primary knife, too big for a secondary, and the oversize bolster adds more weight than strength.

On the other hand, the fact that GEC and Rough Rider can both stay in business seems to me a positive indication for the survival of traditional pocket knives, even if the Barlow frenzy should turn out to be a passing fad.
 
Some knives are just engrained in the American culture; stockmen, trappers and yes, the barlow. I think there were enough quality barlows being made by others and Buck never wanted to fight that competition. In the folder world, I believe, they are known for there Stockmen and I think that is the strength they go forward with and continue to provide to us Buck people. And who knows maybe we will get a s30v or jigged bone version someday........300
 
mbjannusch said:
BUck does make or made a large and a small barlow. I believe the # was a 331 and 332. I'll see if I can dig up some pics.


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I had no idea Buck ever had these.

If they were to make them again, and make them in the USA, I would get a box of them. I love good Barlows.
 
300Bucks said:
Some knives are just engrained in the American culture; stockmen, trappers and yes, the barlow. I think there were enough quality barlows being made by others and Buck never wanted to fight that competition. In the folder world, I believe, they are known for there Stockmen and I think that is the strength they go forward with and continue to provide to us Buck people. And who knows maybe we will get a s30v or jigged bone version someday........300
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You've packed a lot of insight into a few short lines. This post will have less insight and more length but I've only had a single cup this morning...

The question is, which slip joint market does Buck want to compete in?

When I go to my local Bass Pro shop, there is a rotating Case display on the counter. The low end Buck slip joints hang in blister pack in the isles.

Should Buck be competing with Case (not a high end maker, by any stretch) or with Rough Rider, Appalachian Trails and Taylor Brand Schrade?

I think the US made 300 series is just about perfect. As you note, they correctly focus on their core tradition of the stockman and they show great brand management by sticking to the 3 most recognizably Buck looks with the black derlin, cherry wood and rosewood/brass combos. In fact, these wood/scale combinations are so strongly associated with Buck that Buck could easily drop that horrible blue shield from the Chairman series and the rosewood models and IMO, they should (really, that logo just needs to go period, imo). Leave the hammer logo on the black ones.

As for the imported slipjoints and the desires expressed here to see other patterns... There's just no way to say this other than they make me both sad and embarrassed. Everything about them screams generic imported trinket. They could just as easily say Rough Rider, only that Rough Rider uses a better 440A (knock off?) steel.

If there really is a market for Buck slip joints in other patterns and if Bear & Sons can't bring their QC up to snuff (demands by Buck might make it happen), then perhaps Buck should do limited runs with any of several Pennsylvania based makers. Stick to the black derlin scale and hammer shield look.

The owner of Knives Ship Free had/has a thread running in the Traditional forum in which he asks if people would buy slip joints made of 420HC. As you know, KSF has a house brand of slip joints called Northwoods that are entirely outsourced to US makers. My answer to his question would be a resounding "YES!" if the knives a) said Buck on them, b) looked like a Buck (black derlin, primarily) and c) were made in the US.

GEC keeps toying around with their "Farm and Field" series of derlin or micarta scaled hard user knives. That strikes me as a marriage made in knife heaven. Buck should call GEC and once a year to a limited run of black derlin & 420HC in one pattern that GEC is running that year. GEC gets a new channel for their "Farm and Field" quality knives (under the Buck name) and Buck gets a good quality USA made slip joint portfolio for the collectors.
 
Pinnah, The leaves are likely in good color for you today. My two big ash trees, just hint at some yellow and then turn dead brown, fall, and blow up on the porch and against the garage doors. Your words are thinkers words, thinkers of knife worlds goings on. Number one question to ask, is Buck wanting out of its folder production, and two is there money to be made in having there name on someone else's knife ? And I am out on thin ice speculating too heavily, but walk in any 'Mart' and the presence of overseas contract Bucks apparently answers question number two. We sound like industry journals

But, third and most important, I chuckle at Doc's post (#32) on the Buck Barlows, it shows how few people actually read thru a long thread or many posts come from the new posts thread, where people read the new posts from all over BladeForums.

Doc, as it says in a post or two up the line, these in Matt's photo are contract knives made by Camillus with the Buck name on them. They were actually ordered and 'bought' first hand by Smokey Mountain Knife Works as a special run sold only by them. Camillus made exact copies, without the Buck stamping, for Remington and themselves. They currently can be found in aftermarket sellers only. Good Luck they are not common. Buck has never had tooling or made a production Barlow knife in their own factory.

Here are some Buck student pointers , no model number on the tang, made by Camillus, marked with Buck stampings but sold by SMKWs as special order models just for them.. ....Knives made only in the Buck factory, after 1985 will have a date code stamped after after the model number..........FYI
300Bucks
 
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300Bucks said:
Here are some Buck student pointers , no model number on the tang, made by Camillus, marked with Buck stampings but sold by SMKWs as special order models just for them.. ....Knives made only in the Buck factory, after 1985 will have a date code stamped after after the model number..........FYI
300Bucks
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Fixed. :)
 
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You are on your toes. Yes, I was flapping my jaws disconnected from my brain. Let me start over. A knife without a model number and says U.S.A. on the tang is likely made by Camillus for SMKWs sales.

We are a team, all of us. Never not question statements that seem funny or you know are "stretched" , in a kindly manner as Bear Claw did, by anyone, especially me.

BC would you edit the quote in your last post so no one thinks my yapping is true, I have changed the original.

300
 
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