Buck's 420HC - My view......

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Oct 2, 2009
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Greetings all,

Ever since I have gotten my buck 110 I have been fascinated by what seems like an ability to hold an edge as well as the other super steels I have on a day to day basis. All in all I think I have been humbled by this simple steel. I was obsessed about reading all I could about super steels and learning everything I could about them, then I decided to finally test them out against each other.

My tests were simple with normal material one would be cutting with. I had an old hickory tree branch and started with that. I took each knife and shaved the hickory branch 40 times with each knife (My hand hurt like a #^#&.) I used 4 knives. A buck 110 (420CH), buck 426 (425M), Benchmade Ares (M2HS), and Benchmade Ares (S30V). Yes, all knives were honed to what most here reckon as super scary sharp (all tree topped hairs)

Well, all in all after 120 cuts for each knife all of them seemed equal. The only one that was showing more wear was the buck 426 with 425M steel. Wear was tested by push cutting paper.

I then went to cutting cardboard and pretty much cut until the knives started snagging on push cutting paper. The Buck 425M fell behind the other knives (snagging a lot all over the blade). The M2 stayed just slightly ahead (and I mean slightly). And the S30V and 420HC were pretty much neck and neck and only snagged slightly here and there on the paper.

After my hands were tiring dramatically to the point where I couldn't cut any more, my conclusion was that in the real world, 420HC is as good as the rest of them. I always hone my blades at the end of the night anyways (quick power strop on my belt sander) so that they are screaming sharp for the following day, so there is no need for a steel that doesn't need to be sharpened for 6 months, for me. Plus, I put the knives and my hand through hell, tearing through a hickory branch and slicing away at countles boxes until my hands were thoroughly wore out, which is more then I would do normally in a month.

I did not intend this to be a scientific method of proving one metal stomps the next, just the fact that in my applications and what I think I will be using it for it is pretty equal across the board. It may be different if you are cutting metal wires and carpet all the time, but I rarely if ever do this. Cutting up cardboard boxes, cutting up dinner, making marshmellow sticks, and carving up wood etc, cleaning fish, game..... is what I use my knives for. 420HC worked just as good as the super steels in this application. And is sharpened up with less passes on the strop. It is some good stuff. Now bucks older 425M is not.
 
Was edge angle etc same across the board? Just checking :)

Good test. Buck does their 420 HC really well.
 
Was edge angle etc same across the board? Just checking :)

Good test. Buck does their 420 HC really well.


Ha..... well as a matter of fact the way I set up my belt grinder I have it set at 18 degrees (you can go from 90 to 0 degrees on my belt sander), but of course the belt convexs this angle a little, but they were all set at this exact angle. I sharpen all my blades like this, not to thin and not too thick. The 420HC takes the sharpest edge and the M2HS steel is right up there with it with the 425M steel not far behind. The S30V was just a tiny bit behind. But we are talking about hardly being able to tell as all of them tree topped hair, so this point is pretty much moot.

One thing I noticed is that the bucks cut through the cardboard a hell of a lot better then the ares did, but this was because of the grind, not the sharpness. I still love the ares though, it's my favorite looking knife.

I did test a D2 also (benchmade 710), and it lost its screaming edge faster then all the others, really fast, so that turned me off quick. I know it will hold a working edge forever, but for some reason I love a screaming sharp edge.
 
I have a buck 110 that I don't use much anymore but was my EDC "big knife" back in the 80's.

I would have bought it in about 1979 probably. It is one of the 110s that was just barely chamfered (sp?) around the edges...not rounded off like the new ones are today...fairly square edges.

What steel do you suppose mine is? A buck 110 from 1979 or thereabouts? It is quite hard. I never had much luck sharpening it until I went wild with my Lansky a couple years ago and very carefully got it scary sharp. I don't use the Lansky anymore but that's a different thread.

I too hear great things about Bucks's 420HC and ofter hear that attributed to the care with which they heat treat.

I very much appreciate your test results. I think "cuttin' stuff 'til your hand gives out" is a pretty darn decent real-world test that may be as good as science for the everyday user. Thanks!
 
is is a great example of how much hype is in the new wonder steel of the month bull hocky. The fact is, that most of us here on the forum would not tell the difference in real world use of one steel from another. The marketing hype has convinced too many that unless you have the latest and greatest wonder steel, you're barely above neolithic level. The fact is, that a good many of the more under rated steels will give great edc performance in day to day life in the great suburban wilderness most of us inhabit. The heat treat and blade profile does more than just the type of steel.

For that matter, look how many mastodon's got skinned out with an obsidian flake. Someitmes our obsession as knife knuts clouds our perception of things.

Great post, Incahiker.
 
I have a buck 110 that I don't use much anymore but was my EDC "big knife" back in the 80's.

That's funny you asked because I had to look up dates on the 426 to find out what kind of steel that was. Up until 1981 I believe buck used 440C, from that point until the early 90s the used 425M . From what I gather the 440C was the most wear resistant and the 425M the least, from people who actually used there knives. The 420HC is right in the middle.

The other things I like about 420HC is that it is down right hard as heck to get the blade to rust or stain. It holds its edge as good as good as I want, and it is fast to resharpen (a green loaded strop will easily bring back the edge, S30V and M2 are not so easy). That 425M though sharpens up nice too, but it does lose its super sharp edge faster then the others.

Seems like 420HC is a good balance of everything.
 
I think the testing also shows how important heat treatment is! Bos heat treatment allows the Buck 420 HC to be as good and consistent as it is.

If I recall correctly, Buck using 425M was prior to their using Bos for heat treating their blades.

Good post Inca.

Peter
 
Thanks guys,

I finally figured, "Rather then just read countless reviews, why don't I just go ahead and do a review with just normal material I have laying around the house and see what the results are for my uses." I would suggest you guys do the same. Sharpen all the knives to the same sharpness though, and then go ahead and do your tests. Get carpet, cardboard, wood, etc... what ever you use you knife for and put the knives head to head. You may come up with different results, but I have seen what my knives will do and I am pefectly happy with bucks 420HC.

I used to think that S30V, D2, M2, etc.... would completely blow away the humble 420HC, because I would sit and read for hours about the different steels and how in theory they should turn out. But I guess real world is different then just sitting and reading the computer screen. I strop every night (because I like too) and I have no need for a steel that might last extremely long without sharpening. And with what I was doing they both were losing there edges pretty similarly until the point where they were hardly push cutting paper at the same rate, thought the 425M fell behind far before the others. I usually sharpen when it starts to snag on paper.

The point is that the 420HC will not go dull after 7 cuts while the super steels will stay sharp until you die. There is not "THAT" much difference. It's not like going from a .38 special to a 454 casul. Maybe a 38 special to a 38 special +P, lol....... I think I have spent too much time in theory and not enough time in actually seeing what the knives will do....
 
Good thread.

There's obvious reasons why Buck is still going strong and why the 110 is still being made with the same materials that it has been made with for decades.

The formula is simple and it works.

Tostig
 
Such perfect timing for this thread. I just got back using my recently acquired buck/strider 889 on a short hike. I specifically took it along to check out the steel, as its my first and only 420hc blade. I used it to strip bark, whittle, and even chop a 2 inch diameter dead branch; and it performed great. I used it non stop for almost two hours and it really surprised me how well it held an edge. Got home, and after a couple passes on the sharpmaker, it push cuts paper no problem.

I didn't get to compare it head to head with another steel, but from my experience, Buck's 420hc is a totally acceptable steel.
 
I bought my 119 in 2000 as pretty much my first fixed blade. I was 11 or 12 ( can't really remember anymore ) and definitely didn't know how to treat a blade properly. That's why when I suggest the 119 to people I know it can deal with abuse; it survived an 11 year old boy!

Anyway, I brought that up, because up until about 4 years ago I never once needed to sharpen it, and it had always been my "sharpest" knife. I use to regard Buck knives as being "the sharpest" because of that knife and the way it held its edge. I remember the first time I used it and it was dull I was literaly in disbelief.

Now of course I've never given this knife any regular use. I barely ever get to use it for anything, actually, but I would say that 7 years without ever seeing a degradation in sharpness is hard to beat. I've owned other knives for that long and cannot say the same thing about them, one of which was a KaBar USMC and the other a Buck in ATS-34. They were both sharper than the 119 was when they were out of the box, but they got "dull" far before I would ever use that word for the 119.
 
I've purchased and gave away well over 200 knives looking for a blade that will beat a Buck's 420HC heat treat.

I'm pretty sure they discovered some super steel they don't want anyone to know about so they just called it 420HC to throw everyone off track. :)

If I could find a fault with Buck it would be in the looks department. They seem to always just slightly miss the mark(11x series excluded). Probably a ood thing for all the other knife companies. :)
 
WHile i'm no hard-core knife user, i can say the 420HC my Paklite Skinner ($14) is made of does a fine job for my simple needs (generally just a bit of wood 'processing' for now).

Takes and holds an awesome edge - and for $14 how can ya go wrong?
 
I love my Vantage select with 420HC. I have a large and small pro model with s30v, but somehow the small select always finds its way into my pocket instead. I enjoy sharpening it every couple weeks (or longer depending on use.) I think I just like working with a steel that I can easily touch up every once in awhile.
 
It does get pretty sharp!
Nice read, tnx for posting

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I've purchased and gave away well over 200 knives looking for a blade that will beat a Buck's 420HC heat treat.

I'm pretty sure they discovered some super steel they don't want anyone to know about so they just called it 420HC to throw everyone off track. :)

If I could find a fault with Buck it would be in the looks department. They seem to always just slightly miss the mark(11x series excluded). Probably a ood thing for all the other knife companies. :)

Ha... maybe you are right about the super steel, lol. Ya most of there knives are plain jane, but thats ok. But behind the benchmade ares my favorite design is the buck 110, that knife is just pure goodness to hold and to look at. I love the 110, it has an ageless beauty.....

Oh, and speaking of the 110, that knife easily blew away all other folders, comfort wise, when actually working hard on cutting material. The other knives will start to dig into your hand while the 110 never really does. It feels the best out of any folder I have used.
 
Of course, you all realize that only those with chutzpah enough to defy the wrath of the steel 'junkies', will fully understand the true worth of 420HC. Buck has had plenty of time to bring the heat treating of the steel they use, to the point of a fine art. As for the 110 itself, well, I have lots of fine knives that I can choose from, but a 110 is always on my belt. :thumbup:
 
I won't hesitate to buy Buck's 420 HC blades if its USA made. Buck's heat treat is not said to be magical without reason. Though I usually would not think laying eyes on 420-series steels, Buck's heat treat and everything has made it that I won't hesitate to buy knife if its made from 420 HC with Buck's heat treatment. I know I get seriously good stuff without paying too much from steel name.
 
I used to have a Buck 110 when I was growing up. You guys just convinced me to go out and buy another one! You cant beat the price!
 
No, you can't beat the price...


Now about the blades and the origin, do bucks from China get Paul Bos's heat treat? I was going to buy a Buck that was made from China (cause the same model is not made in U.S.) but I was wondering about the heat treat. Do Chinese Buck knives get heat treated the same as U.S. Buck knives? They still follow the Paul Bos set up don't they?
 
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