Buck's 425M Steel

A

Ace Rimmer

Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
1,882
We see a lot of discussion of Buck's 420HC steel here, and some discussion of 440C, but I rarely notice any mention of 425M, which is reported to have been used from 1982 to 1991. I'd be interested in hearing any information you might have about the characteristics of this steel.

Why I'm Curious:

I have a 703, 119, and 532 from the era of 425M. I haven't carried the 703 in a long time, and it was last "sharpened" way back when I knew even less about sharpening than I do now. I recently decided to check it out and found it to be a lot more work than Case's stainless steel. (No surprise there.) I used my DMT four inch pocket stones starting with 220 grit, making sure it would shave arm hair before moving on to finer grits (typically 325 and 600 at least, then on to 1200, 8000, and finally 14,000 lapping film sometimes, depending on my mood).

My 532 has a few chips in the edge so I though I'd see what I could do to fix that. I made a few high angle passes on my 220 grit stone, then drew the edge across the same stone a few times. That didn't eliminate the chips completely, but was as far as I wanted to go for a first test. Then I moved on to the 220 stone to reestablish the apex. Well... It must have taken 30 to 40 minutes to get a good apex back. I was starting to think I was never going to make it. After that I moved to higher grits and the whole process must have taken an hour or more.

This seems to be some pretty tough, hard steel.
 
The only thing I "know" (note quotes) about 425M is Buck was the only company that used it.
Every batch they received was a special order from the foundry.

I heard/read somewhere that Buck went to 420HC because of the increasing cost for 425M.
However, that could just be an "old wives' tale".



Question:
In general, how many old wife's have to agree on some B.S. story before it becomes an accepted Old Wives' Tale?
More than two?

Is there no such thing as a "Young Wives' Tale" because the young wife's cannot come to a consensus on anything?
Other than they are their hubby's "better 99.999/100ths, and their hubby is a moron who should not be let out without a keeper, of course.
Seems young or old, all wife's are convinced of those two things ...
(just because women have a bigger brain and use it (sometimes) ... don't mean us guys are morons ... We can parallel park, for example ... 😇👍)
 
Last edited:
I have only one in 425m, it’s a 1989 301 stockman. Full flat grind and it is pretty decent holding an edge but it doesn’t cut or slice as nicely as the one in 420hc with Bucks hollow grind. I use it for more rough duty, hard or firm materials, some whittling and it has removed a lot of paint from id tags on parts and components over the years. Lol. I don’t use it as much now but occasionally I’ll get it out when I’m working on dirty, grime covered stuff cause it seems to withstand the wear better.
 
a lot here hold the 425m in high regard, but truth be told it's so close to 420hc I cant tell the difference in my sharpening or use. the easy to tell difference is the geometry between the two knives such as edge 2000 vs. not, as an example. not so much the steel.

ironically i hold 12c27 in high regard compared to 440a, 420hc and 425m, aus6 etc etc. but its likely only in my mind being any better. in actual use I seriously doubt I could tell a difference. in a pepsi challenge type deal all blind tested. unlike the pepsi challenge which I could always tell cause I like the heavier carbonating in coke and lower sweetness. whereas pepsi is sickening syrup type sweet and kinda flat fizz wise. anyways......assuming all done with proper heat treats etc.

I believe 425m is like that. id be surprised, given an unknown Buck steel wise and all things equal the grinds angles and edge setups being identical for testing it, if anyone could tell the difference really. having said that I like it as it's kinda rare and obsolete now and isnt a bad steel by any means. if Buck brought it back and even if they charged a small premium, I'd buy knives in it just cause.
 
Thats where the comma comes in from grammer. Old describes the wives tale, not the wives. However by the time the tale is told the wives are probably old too. Lol funny how many of old sayings get construed.
Coke thumbs up.
 
For me, 425m steel is between 420 and 440C. It holds a very good edge. Plus, is a good stainless. I like it a lot. It has vanadium in it's mix and that boosts it's edge holding & grain structure. It takes a little more time to milk a good edge out of it than 420 but worth it. I would use a SiC
stone as I've noticed a India stone takes longer to form a good apex. Good sharpening, DM
 
I came to Bucks in 2007 and even though I had 112's in that steel (425) I never used one..always 420. I didn't get around to S30V as a user till the August BOTM Slim Pro. The very few 112's I had in S30V went straight into my collection. In fact I was a reverse steel snob for years thinking 420 was as good as any other no matter how much my Brother David would rave about finding 110's in 'Super Steel' and talk about how much better they were. The first time I seriously consideed buying/using any was when the BCCI 301 in BG42 came out because David was adamant it made the best user 110. So I will dig out one of my 112's in 425 and see how it compares since Buck thought so highly of it and used it for so many years for so many different models..I wonder how it compares to S35VN in actual use?
 
Questions
1) When Buck switched from 440C to 425M, did they change the hollow grind or edge geometry?
2) When Buck changed from 425M to 420HC, did they introduce the "Edge 2000" at the same time?

It's been mentioned numerous times on this forum that the noticeable difference in ease of sharpening of the 420 comes from the considerable difference in the thickness behind the edge.

I guess the question to ask is - If all things were identical except for the alloy itself; would there be a noticeable difference between these three steels in cutting, edge retention, and sharpening?

I gifted a 101 to my cousin this season in 420 and he field dressed 4 deer and several other critters and has yet to sharpen it.

 
MT Pokt, On question #1, I don't think so. The grind changed in 1980 with the 3 dot models.
Question # 2, is yes. Edge 2000 came in close to the switch to 420. IN 92 Buck phased
in 420. I have a Buck light Workman that has a very thin hollow grind and the year date is 1993.
Statement #1, the ease of sharpening came from both. A thinner grind and a change in steel.
Statement #2, yes a difference would be noticed among all those steels. How long the edge held up and the difficulty in sharpening. DM
 
Last edited:
My 1989 301 has 425m with full flat grind. And some others I’ve seen from that era have flat grind. But my 1989 110 Damascus stag has hollow grind. I always wondered why the same year had different grinds. I had read somewhere they used another or different hollow grind before the X2k version. Also when Buck started making the 300 series in house did they change the grind from the Camillus grind ?
 
MT_Pokt MT_Pokt , another ingredient in the difficulty of sharpening those early 1970's knives with 440C steel was, people tried to do it using a natural
stone. Which struggled in sharpening 440C without the convex hollow grind. Had they obtained a good coarse SiC stone and ground down the
thick edge, their troubles would have been largely over. Here is a early 1970's square micarta handle, Empress Trio 9" carver, that I took to a stone and thinned the thick edge down. It didn't take a lot of metal removed per side to greatly improve the slicing ability of this carver. On a 119 or 120 maybe something like 1/16" per side. My observations on this subject. DM
EmpressNine1.jpg
 
Thanks David. Other than my old 118s, I haven't used 440C in many years. I could get them sharp, but the edge was pretty obtuse. I fixed that with my Norton oil stones. I've since used S30V and S90V Bucks more than any other Buck steels. As a matter of fact; my S90V 110 still has the factory edge. It's only been through a half dozen or so deer; but it will still shave hair off my arm. For how I use my 110 for hunting/fishing; I'm quite impressed.

 
This is a great steel, I had a titanium 110 from 1990, I was a fool for selling it, but I'll find one again if I get the chance. I didn't use it for long, only about a year, but it held an edge very well. In real-world use, it's unlikely to be any different from the current 420HC, but in a lab test like CATRA, I'm guessing it'll be a few percent ahead. I have another interest, last week I learned about the existence of the 425 model. I bought several 2009's at a local store and the thought came to me that I should look for the old 425 so that the name of the model and the name of the steel match
 
failbot said:
This is a great steel, I had a titanium 110 from 1990, I was a fool for selling it, but I'll find one again if I get the chance. I didn't use it for long, only about a year, but it held an edge very well. In real-world use, it's unlikely to be any different from the current 420HC, but in a lab test like CATRA, I'm guessing it'll be a few percent ahead. I have another interest, last week I learned about the existence of the 425 model. I bought several 2009's at a local store and the thought came to me that I should look for the old 425 so that the name of the model and the name of the steel match
Click to expand...
I've got more than a handful of 425m Bucks. I really like it on the mid to late 80s slip joints. It really takes a nice edge and you've got a pocket full of razors with the multi-blade slip joints.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top