Buck's S30V vs 420HC

How is it that many of those who dislike Buck s30V because it is harder to sharpen also claim it does not hold an edge much better than Buck 420HC? Micro-chipping because Buck cannot get the HT right?
 
Thomas Linton said:
How is it that many of those who dislike Buck s30V because it is harder to sharpen also claim it does not hold an edge much better than Buck 420HC? Micro-chipping because Buck cannot get the HT right?
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Nobody said that Buck had the HT wrong, on the contrary. Buck's HT is the best in the business, bar none. What I said is that I don't find a significant difference in the edge retention. What makes sense in my head is both sides of the coin. If I can get 1000 cuts out of 420HC before I have to sharpen my knife, and it takes me 10 min to complete that sharpening, Or I get 1100 cuts out of S30v and it takes me 20 min to sharpen my knife. I'll take the 1000 cuts with 420HC. My goal is to get work done, not waste time on sharpening my knife. Of course these figures are for example only, but the idea is there.
 
First, I like my 420HC 110's just fine.

However, my old 440C 110 outcuts my 420HC example by much more than 10%.

S30V is much better than 440C in abrasion resistance. S30V has roughly twice the carbon of 420HC and a significant amount of vanadium, which 420HC lacks.

420HC is easier to sharpen because it is far less abrasion-resistant than 440C or S30V, making it easier to machine for Buck.

So if Buck is nuts on in HT for S30V, the S30V is far superior in edge-holding to 420HC. Says Buck:
S30V - This is the absolute best blade steel available and its made in America. S30V contains carbon as well as high amounts of chromium, molybdenum and vanadium. Double-tempered – it can be hardened to a Rockwell hardness of RC 59.5-61
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I am not sure is I agree that S30V is "the best" (whatever that means), but that is what Buck says comparing it to 420HC.
 
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I like Bucks s30v. I did learn shortly after getting it several years ago that if you let it get dull its a little tougher to sharpen for me. Therefore I usually keep a close eye on the edge and occasionally will take a translucent stone or leather hone to it. But my s30v I honestly use for cutting things like meat, game ,etc.I dont use it for rougher jobs.
 
I totally agree with what mbannuch has posted here and in other sites on this matter. I have more user experience than most and more years than most, and even more variety than most.
For instance ,how many have the experience of rough cutting of poured babbit bearings, for days on end?Or deburring cylinder bores after boreing? Or cutting and laying sod for years? Or pointing lath by the hundreds for grade stakes? Or digging out tar balls in asphalt surface? Or cuting out blisters in tennis court surface? Or cutting hundreds of yards of carprt daily for courts? Or cutting off old radiator hoses and cutting new to fit?For decades? I usualy carry one 110 for my use and one or two for loaners, depending on the size of the crew. I also carry a 307 and a lancer. Also I often carry in a double sheath with a 317 and a yatchsman. I prefer the older 440c for loaners because of the abuse from careless use. Two of which are now with Joe for thier first refurbish ever. I have retired two others simply because time has made them too valuable for collectors. So I can safely say that Buck heat treat is the best, bar none. The new 420hc is great . I have a Buck knife. I can do anything.
 
Interesting post Hill.
Do you have any S30V to compare to 420HC in real life use?
Which was the original posters question. Just wondering if you have tried it.

All of you guys are making me want to dig through this box of old 110's and start sharpening up all the 440 stuff in there. :eek::D
 
Both are good, S30V is better. In Buck's CATRA tests, S30V held an edge about 40% longer than 420HC, if I recall. The higher amount of carbides in S30V make it a bit more difficult to sharpen, but both steels respond well to diamond hones.
 
I guess this thread has done something for the best, I just bought a triple Diamond stone. Now I can buy knives with S30V:D
 
Lenny said:
I'm thinking of getting either a 501 or 110 from the Custom Shop.
I know Buck's 420HC is highly regarded, but how does it stack up to their S30V?
What differences will I see in regular use, and heavy use?
Thanks all,
Lenny
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If you are ordering from the Custom Shop, go ahead and pay the extra $18.50 for the S30V. You won't regret it. Yes, S30V will perform $18.50 better than 420HC over the lifetime of the knife.
 
OK, I'm more confused than ever1 : )
I think I'll stick to the 420HC due to its ease of sharpening.
I have S30V knives, and while they get blazing sharp, they loose that scalpel sharpness pretty quickly,
but then hold a "working edge" for a long time.
I have no problem touching up my knives daily if they see significant use.
On a side note, I might steer away from the 501.
I forget who did the wonderful review of theirs with the jigged buffalo horn.
While a gorgeous knife, the problem with that knife seems to be that there is nothing to stop the
blade from slamming into the back spring when closing, or inadvertantly squeezing the knife in the closed position.
I don't want to have to sharpen out flat spots all the time because of this design fault.
I assume the 110 doesn't have this problem?
Any comments on this?
Lenny
 
The 110 does NOT have that problem, Lenny.

And, as I said before, most users will not notice any difference between the two steels because most users don't skin six deer at a time very often.......if ever in their life.

:D

S30V is less than 50% better at edge-holding according to Buck's own tests......and some think it's not quite as resistant to chipping or flattening or rolling or whatever as 420HC is--meaning 420HC could have a small advantage there.

Fact is......if you're not a heavy user of the knife, 420HC is the better choice.

If you skin deer for a living, by all means go for the S30V--I would.

:)
 
2TONYB said:
If you are ordering from the Custom Shop, go ahead and pay the extra $18.50 for the S30V. You won't regret it. Yes, S30V will perform $18.50 better than 420HC over the lifetime of the knife.
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It's actually $13 because 420HC will add $5.50 to the price right off the bat.

;)
 
Part of the confusion comes from the fact that people believe the hype from the seller and the shills.

Crucible says S30V is the greatest thing since steel was invented and it cuts through bones as if they were warm butter.

Buck says S30V is the best steel on the market.

We must remember that they are the SELLERS.

We don't believe Dodge when they say they have the best trucks, do we?

Or......then again, maybe some of us do.

:D
 
Lenny said:
OK, I'm more confused than ever1 : )
I think I'll stick to the 420HC due to its ease of sharpening.
I have S30V knives, and while they get blazing sharp, they loose that scalpel sharpness pretty quickly,
but then hold a "working edge" for a long time.
I have no problem touching up my knives daily if they see significant use.
On a side note, I might steer away from the 501.
I forget who did the wonderful review of theirs with the jigged buffalo horn.
While a gorgeous knife, the problem with that knife seems to be that there is nothing to stop the
blade from slamming into the back spring when closing, or inadvertantly squeezing the knife in the closed position.
I don't want to have to sharpen out flat spots all the time because of this design fault.
I assume the 110 doesn't have this problem?
Any comments on this?
Lenny
Click to expand...

I have never had a Buck lockback, any model, Slam into the backspring when closing...And almost EVERY lockback knife can be"squeezed" while closed to make the blade hit the back of the well...it's not a design flaw, it's just the way they work...
 
Oh, you're just mad 'cause you were wrong on the $18.50 when it's really $13.

:D
 
2TONYB said:
That would be an opinion.
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There all just opinions, even the tests are subjective. Not every test shows the same results, so opinions are what we have to work with...

If S30v was the greatest steel on the market, why have S60V or S90V, I'd take D2 over any others on the market today, Tats my Opinion...
 
FWIW I use a Sharpmaker for most of my sharpening needs and find that as long as I don't let my S30V blades get too dull all they ever need is the occasional touchup. i've had far more trouble with D2 than S30V
 
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