Buffing Help

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Dec 24, 2014
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So I noticed today while preparing a guard face before milling, that after buffing it still had surface scratching, FROM the buffing. On the grinder I progressed from 120 grit up to 15 micron. I then went to a rough 220 dark buff, 600 brown, then 2000 pink, or "no scratch" it may be called, and still, in the right light, these show up. I also have a 1000 white compound but did not use it on this. Maybe I should have? I clean all my wheels after each use with a rake, so I'm not sure what is causing this, or if I'm missing something?
And just for clarification, these are not grinder marks. I ground vertically and then buffed like this to make sure it was good to go.
Any info would be fantastic. It really seems like the wheels are dirty but, I dont know any other way of cleaning them from grit and what not.
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your wheel may be contaminated. You can rake it and blow it out with a compressor and see if that helps
 
I just, within the past 2 or 3 months maybe started using the rake. Before that I use to use old worn out 36 grit ceramic belts. That seemed to get a lot of the crud out. But, I will try raking and air.
 
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." - Arthur Conan Doyle

They are too easily contaminated and not so easily cleaned. Since you say you have raked them I doubt you will find anything to get them back to as new condition, though trying air like Adam recommended is free and easy enough. I would just replace them. They are a consumable and cheap.

You didn't mention if you are using the same buff for the different compounds you listed.

-Clint
 
Doesn't take much to contaminate a buffing wheel in a knife making environment. I rake my wheels then trim any long stray fibers then load the compound and buff on a clean
piece of material to set the compound before buffing the parts I want polished.

I keep all my buffing wheels in their own separate zip lock bags when not in use to avoid contamination. When I see issues like you have I pitch the buff and get a new one
because reality is the buff is probably not salvageable.

Mike
 
Store the buffs in labeled zip lock bags. While on the buffer and not in use, slip a large bag over the buff to keep grit from settling on the buff.


Now, as someone who buffs things for a living, here is what most people don't consider - You need a separate buff for every grit if you want a flawless polish. Even then, a mirror polish will get scratches on any soft metal like brass, nickel, silver, gold, unhardened steel, etc. Anything moving across the surface will leave lines behind it - including the buff. Pushing hard while buffing makes it worse. This is why a satin finish is far better.


In you scenario, if you used the same wheel on your buff, it has 220 grit, 600 grit, 2000 grit, and who knows what else imbedded in the threads. You can't rake or clean all of it out. You can get most by severely raking it, but some coarser grit will undoubtedly remain. Even if you use separate buffs, unless you carefully cleaned the blade and anything that was in contact with a coarser grit ( like your hands) you may contaminate the next wheel. This can be taken to an extreme in aerospace industries, but for knifemakers, just try and keep things clean.

Finally - all grits are much harder than the metal being buffed ... especially if it is a soft metal like brass/nickel. Yes, 2000 grit is just as hard as 220 grit!
The tendency is to load more and more polish on the buff to make it cut better and faster ... bad idea. The polish just clumps up on the threads and creates large balls of polish that simulate giant grit particles. Your 2000 grit polish may create 100 grit clumps. This is what you are removing when you rake a buff. If you use just the right amount of polish and just the right amount of pressure, the buffing will go well. Using one factor to compensate for a lack of the other will not help.



I almost hesitate to mention this, but buff speed is also a factor. When buffing metal, the faster the surface sped, the better the shine ... because it will require less pressure as it delivers more "strokes" . In knifemaking this is a very big problem, as increased speed greatly creates increased danger.
Also, the motor power is a factor. The more power, the bigger the buff it can spin, and the harder the pressure allowed ( for industrial tasks where pressure is needed). As before, in knifemaking this is not a desired thing. The more power, the harder it is to control or hold on to the blade. It also throws the blade even more violently when it does grab ( and it WILL!). In many knife shops you will see 1HP double shaft buffers throwing 12" buffs. In industry they go up to 5HP and 36" buffs. Leave all those to the pros who know how to buff and wear the proper safety gear. In industry, most buffing personnel have to wear full chain mail and other trauma protections.
I always tell new makers that a slower and less powerful buffer is safer. 1/2 to 3/4HP is plenty enough and a 6" buff is all an untrained person should use in a knife shop.
 
Stacy....Good point on cross contamination of coarse grits to finer grits if the object being polished is not wiped clean between those progressions.
 
I do use a different buff for every grit, but I do not store them in baggies. I guess I just never thought about protecting them in that aspect. They are on the other side of the room from the grinder, but still I'm sure some dirt and grit can settle on them. I'll have to get a new set of buffs soon and start putting them in ziplocks
 
I just, within the past 2 or 3 months maybe started using the rake. Before that I use to use old worn out 36 grit ceramic belts. That seemed to get a lot of the crud out. But, I will try raking and air.

using a belt can contaminate the wheel

a rake is better

you can use a hacksaw blade for those who do not have a rake

Writing in different colorslike Stacy does is kindafun:D
 
I guess my days are numbered. I had a spare motor so I put together a buffer.

It's a 3 HP motor. Thanks for the good info. I need to be even more careful.

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Nice set up. Lucky you.
Living in the land of 400 volt 3 phase delivered to your house & life good...
 
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stacy, can you describe the merits of the various buffing wheels as far as knife making is concerned ? muslin, cotton flannel, felt. and also about the construction. some have more concentric circles sewn in them than others, some are spiral sewn also. jantz carries polishing wheels which are muslin but glued together so they are stiffer. which work best for our purposes ? thanks.
 
Not Stacy, but I can give you my input.

Spiral sewn = stiff
concentric stitching = moderately stiff
loose = soft. These are the best at making projectiles from your work since they are, well loose... They also can be used for a delicate finish.

As for the wheel material they also give different stiffness's in a buff. Stiffer fabrics also allow more aggressive cutting.
 
I guess my days are numbered. I had a spare motor so I put together a buffer.

It's a 3 HP motor. Thanks for the good info. I need to be even more careful.

7b464482dbad77dade65553fc9316b2d.jpg

Little known fact that Steven King's "Christine" novel was originally about a buffer.
 
Nice set up. Lucky you.
Living in the land of 400 volt 3 phase delivered to your house & life good...

Not neccesarily! There are MONO imput TRI output VDF's out there... Which is a great way to power industrial equipment from a household outlet. We are talking about motors... not welders!
 
Some more comment about buffs.

Get the ones with a hole in the center. 3/4" and 1" are the best sizes. I use a 1" hole to fit my buffer shafts. The screw on ones with a small starter hole are not as good and can get off center and vibrate a lot. That leads to being grabby. The setup maelstrom uses is the type I would suggest avoiding. Use a shaft adapter with a threaded sleeve.

The wider the buff the better (within reason) a 1" wide buff is really good for knives. Many are rated in number of plies. 60 or greater is best.
 
All great tecnical comments!
I would just add one consideration: "mirror finish is a mirage that lasts one day".
In Knifemaking there isn't a blade with a perfectly smooth surface, there is the surface that we see perfectly smooth. You try to make the best mirror surface, look under all angles, changing quality of light, when you're happy then that's fine.

____________________-
Riccardo Mainolfi
 
Naw I was just reposting a pic.

Either way I think we know what you are communicating. But I will not let my buffer be slandered!!!!:D

Here is the craigslist ad I scored it from. Guy I bought it from was using it for buffing stainless motor props with those giant buffs.

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Not neccesarily! There are MONO imput TRI output VDF's out there... Which is a great way to power industrial equipment from a household outlet. We are talking about motors... not welders!

Yeah. My vfd run in 230 v with a 3 phase motor. But he's right. Here in Sweden power is seldom a problem. I have 3 phase 400 volt in my workshop, which isn't that spectacular.
 
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