Bug out - What conditions?

As always we should be prepapred for any type of sitaution.
I agree, buggin-in is your best bet, when it's possible, which may be most of the time.

A while back, someone mentioned being "shoved out" , as in, the authorities mandate everyone must leave. So there could be a time you want to stay, but are sent packing by the National Guard , for instance.

I'm East Coast, but i do think about the Californians. they could have an earthquake. Their home might be still standing, but, they may not want to sleep in there, or spend much time inside if it was severe enough to structurally damage it. That would suck, house is standing, but you can't live in it.
Of course, in this case you might be able camp in your yard, and salvage some supplies from within, on a few risky trips inside.

Hurricanes, Floods, etc. all speak for themselves, if it's strong enough, deep enough, big enough, we all might have to go at some point.

Best thing is to keep your wits, be prepared for any curve-balls that might get thrown, and use your best judgement.
 
Skunk, this is a good question: If you choose to stay in your home: At what point do you let the authorities force you out? At what point do you resist? I see my home as my ultimate refuge.

I understand LEOs have their job to do, and they will do it, but I also see my home as my best protective resource. I will not go to a cot in an armory or gymnasium.
 
Coldwood, I look at it this way, forcing people out of their homes "to protect them" is one thing. making them go to a cot, is detention.

LEOs probably wouldn't do it, they just don't have the man power.
i think it would be National Gaurd, under orders from a Governor.

If they didn't have a compelling reason (like Zombies, or a deadly chem cloud headed my way) I'd consider packing modestly, showing them I am complying, and then when they are dealing with others, doubling back.

I still think it's far fetched. A natural disaster is probably the most likely, massive earthquakes, a tsunami, and such.

OR , just hide, turn out all lights, don't answer door??
 
As much as it pains me to say this:

After the Katrina fall out, Kenye West, Bono and others, I can see the government clearing cities and towns in the path of a big storm or natural disaster. I don't find it hard to believe troops will be deployed to try and keep casualties to a minium by forcible evacuations. At any rate, like lots of other things, it is better to prepare for that eventuality now than when and if it actually happens. Chris
 
Good question. One that my wife and I have been dealing with over and over as we are always trying to deal with any/all obsticles and prepare as best we can. We are lucky to have a big lot (for Southern CA) and plan on using our camping equipment to sleep in the yard if needed. Many Californians do not and will be faced with apt. buildings. We have in-laws close, in a much nicer area, and have developed several routes to get there via automobile, bikes, or foot if our neighborhood becomes unstable. We have kids so that adds in a huge factor.

Shelter, food, water, and fire are all prety easily delt with if you have the equipment and supplies. But my biggest concern is usually the thugs and gangs that may very well take advantage of such a situation. Hopefully the time will never come but just in case... have a damn good plan.
 
runningboar said:
As much as it pains me to say this:

After the Katrina fall out, Kenye West, Bono and others, I can see the government clearing cities and towns in the path of a big storm or natural disaster. I don't find it hard to believe troops will be deployed to try and keep casualties to a minium by forcible evacuations. At any rate, like lots of other things, it is better to prepare for that eventuality now than when and if it actually happens. Chris
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Runningboar, I agree with your observation, the government got a black eye for not taking care of the sheeple. Except, some laws would have to be changed in order for them to be more aggressive. Not that they can't make that happen. Using troops before the fact, is pretty much unconstitutional.
Using them as relief workers is different.
had the feds marched into N.O. and made people move out, the media and ACLU would have cried "civil liberties" and how heavy-handed they were. It was a no win situation.

Even in Florida, the don't and can't forcibly physically remove people.
They use every trick in the book, try to get them to sign a Waiver of Rescue to scare them into leaving and such. But at the end of it all, i don't think they have a legal leg to stand on.

So that's why I was thinking it would have to be something that has already occurred, and the Governor of the State and feds have swapped legalities, which didn't happen right away in Louisiana.

If you live 10 feet below sea level, it's a good idea to leave if the tide's rising.That is the kinda thing that would force most of us to leave, begrudgingly.

Still best to have the plan in place, be able to put your hands on your food water and equipment in short order, and know where it is you'd like to be going.

Your first sign would be the declaration of marshall law, then all bets are off.
Laws and civil rights are suspended at that point. That is when the SHTF stuff could happen.
 
The idea of bugging out when you live within 50 miles of a major metro area strikes me as funny. More than likely you'll have to access a freeway which will be FUBAR in any case. I have two KLR 650s used to explore the mountains around my house each is setup with jerry cans the rest of what I could carry would go on my back. Then I head straight north into the Sequias and disappear till things chill out. But the idea of getting in my Dodge and preambulating up the road in it is laughable. SO is bunkering down in the case of nukes.
 
I have to admit that when I started this thread my thoughts were much the same as "The Chef". Trying to get anywhere in a hurry when everyone has the same idea just seems like lesson in futility, (or if the situation is dire enough the choice of dying at home versus dying in a traffic jam.)

However, after some of the great responses on this thread I decided to look a bit closer. My first choice is still to sit tight, and bunker up. However, if the need arose: My parent's and in-laws both have homes in the Sierra's which would be my bug out location if it ever came to that. My father in law owns a large (Costal Waters capable) boat that might prove to be an easier way to get out of Dodge than dealing with the mess that the roads would be in. An even better possible bet is that one of my brother's in law is currently working on his helicopter pilots license. Combine those things and you have a slightly better chance of getting out than the majority of the urban population.

This beats the situation that I originally imagined.

Sean
 
I'm fortunate, I live in the rural highlands, the worst thing that I will have to face is a blizzard or ice storm, which means I and my wife will be packed in at home. In that case the LEOs or National Guard will have worse things to worry about than dealing with me in my house. Nobody will be moving. There will be power outages and I've dealt with that before, will do it again.

The worst problem will be dealing with people who have not planned ahead for food and water supplies. Or how to deal with lack of power. In 98 we had several people die because they fired up generators in their garage next to the house, one poor elderly couple even did it in their living room...died in their recliners. It may have been mutual suicide.

Those are the situations that we will be called out to deal with.

And so, having taken care of ourselves, are we prepared to go out into the community to take care of others...do we try to evacuate them or leave them in place...do we have food and water and medical supplies for them...how do we deal with the dead?
 
The Chef said:
The idea of bugging out when you live within 50 miles of a major metro area strikes me as funny.
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Point taken, but I would argue that there are some areas on the outskirts of large cities that have enough egress routes that you *could* have some options. I live within 20 miles of downtown Denver and I've actually found at least three routes that would take me into the mountains and five that would take me north into Wyoming without having to get on a single freeway.

If it was a true SHTF situation, I could even get about 10-15 miles just by driving through office parks, fields, and farm roads (if I figured LEOs had bigger fish to fry, and my truck was running).
 
Get maps of your city, county, and state. Each shows features that are not on the others. Then do some recreational driving. You may want to put them in clear plastic folders to make your marks and notes. Mark them with possible routes, note bridges that may be down in flooding, note areas where security may be heightened in an emergency, intersections that are easily congested. Note hazardous sites like refinerys and chemical plants you might want to avoid. (another reason to mark the plastic, not the maps...you wanna be a terr suspect? :eek: ).

When you think you have a route (or routes) selected, get aerial photos. Those are online, FYI. Then back them up with topo maps. I get mine direct from the USGS office via mail. A lot of them are outdated, since they only refresh the photogrammetry once in a blue moon, especially in rural areas, but they show a lot of details not found on all the other types of maps. In some areas, timber company maps are useful. They show timber access roads (TARS) and jeep trails.
 
The Chef said:
The idea of bugging out when you live within 50 miles of a major metro area strikes me as funny. More than likely you'll have to access a freeway which will be FUBAR in any case. I have two KLR 650s used to explore the mountains around my house each is setup with jerry cans the rest of what I could carry would go on my back. Then I head straight north into the Sequias and disappear till things chill out. But the idea of getting in my Dodge and preambulating up the road in it is laughable. SO is bunkering down in the case of nukes.
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Hey Chef,

Ya might wanna check yer map. If you live in Pinion Hills, (Not Pinon Hills - Might want to edit yer profile since there ain't no such town in CA), you'd have a looooong way to ride get to the Sequoias (To your NW) from your 10-20 (Hope your KLRs are real good on gas). Best to look to them mountains directly to your SOUTH (San Gabriel mountains) and head thataway instead since you live in their foothills. You could hide out in Devil's Puchbowl...
 
Yahoo maps shows a Pinon Hills NW of LA off the 138. KLR gets about 60 MPG with 5 gal usable in the tank == 300 miles. If he's carrying extra fuel (which the phrase "each is setup with jerry cans" indicates) he can go much further.
 
Vee3 said:
Hey Chef,

Ya might wanna check yer map. If you live in Pinion Hills, (Not Pinon Hills - Might want to edit yer profile since there ain't no such town in CA), you'd have a looooong way to ride get to the Sequoias (To your NW) from your 10-20 (Hope your KLRs are real good on gas). Best to look to them mountains directly to your SOUTH (San Gabriel mountains) and head thataway instead since you live in their foothills. You could hide out in Devil's Puchbowl...
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Don't let the mispelling of where I live induce paranoia, in spanish it is pinon hills with that little squiggly above the O. :thumbdn:

RAS is right! :thumbup: Since your trying to do the math here you go I average between 47 and 61 miles to a gallon with an 8 gallon tank and .5 gallon in reserve, my additional Jerrys hold 10 gallons a piece. By my calculations I could get back the Seqouias where I'm familiar, the Sierra Nevada's or the mountains (hills) SE of Hollister and hole up.

:confused: As for going into the San Gabriels why? If your familiar with this overcrowded stinkhole high desert, southern california area you would know that 12 million other people have exactly your idea. The San Gabriels on the hole are filled with homeless, meth labs and degenerates. I'll take my chances with the KLRs, wild pigs and black bear any day.

:jerkit: Oh yeah and the Devils PunchBowl? Thats disneyland with trails and you know that people live the whole way up there right? So what are you going to do team up with the rangers at the station, talk to the lil bitty that runs the snake exhibit and pray for rain?

Like I said originally anywhere around SoCal is a death trap too many people plus not enough resources and a high volume of criminals make for a bad environment.

MG is in a better situation in Denver the Rockies cut through alot of the fluff and BS associated with it. One winter in there and you greatly up your chances.
 
The Chef said:
Don't let the mispelling of where I live induce paranoia, in spanish it is pinon hills with that little squiggly above the O. :thumbdn:

RAS is right! :thumbup: Since your trying to do the math here you go I average between 47 and 61 miles to a gallon with an 8 gallon tank and .5 gallon in reserve, my additional Jerrys hold 10 gallons a piece. By my calculations I could get back the Seqouias where I'm familiar, the Sierra Nevada's or the mountains (hills) SE of Hollister and hole up.

:confused: As for going into the San Gabriels why? If your familiar with this overcrowded stinkhole high desert, southern california area you would know that 12 million other people have exactly your idea. The San Gabriels on the hole are filled with homeless, meth labs and degenerates. I'll take my chances with the KLRs, wild pigs and black bear any day.

:jerkit: Oh yeah and the Devils PunchBowl? Thats disneyland with trails and you know that people live the whole way up there right? So what are you going to do team up with the rangers at the station, talk to the lil bitty that runs the snake exhibit and pray for rain?

Like I said originally anywhere around SoCal is a death trap too many people plus not enough resources and a high volume of criminals make for a bad environment.

MG is in a better situation in Denver the Rockies cut through alot of the fluff and BS associated with it. One winter in there and you greatly up your chances.
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Oops! Sorry Chef...

I musta jumped right over the point about your "jerry cans", LOL! I saw "KLR 650" and figured you were planning to get clear across the Mojave and up into the Sequoias on one tank of gas with you and your gear. My mistake :( . BTW, I guess your KLR 650 gets better efficiency off-road and mountain climbing than most do - Considering that it will be lugging a minimum of 350# on your bugout (Plus its own weight) over rough terrain, 47 MPG is very good. Did you calculate the total weight and terrain to be crossed in your figure? With two jerry cans, I guess it doesn't much matter. You could get to the Canadian border with those along.

I still don't quite understand how one would conveniently attach two full 10 gal gas cans to a KLR and have it be suitable to be ridden ~250 miles through desert and mounains (You said you would be avoiding highways). That's a bit of weight (~180# starting out if you include the 8.5 gal in your tank). I guess you won't be making many sharp turns with those cans hanging down :) . I assume you'll be carrying a substantial amount of water to get across the desert (More cans? Pretty dry out that way most times) and at least some other gear too, right? I guess there must be a plausible way to do it on a KLR that I'm not aware of. Maybe you use a trailer or sidecar and travel light (Except for the gas and water) and you must be a top-notch rider.

You must have quite an interesting setup for your bike. I didn't have any idea that such a thing could be practical. Got any pics? Must look really cool.

I see you edited your profile to correct your (And Yahoo's, it seems) spelling error. Now it won't induce any more "paranoia" in me. Thanks. :thumbup:
 
Vee3 said:
Oops! Sorry Chef...

I musta jumped right over the point about your "jerry cans", LOL! I saw "KLR 650" and figured you were planning to get clear across the Mojave and up into the Sequoias on one tank of gas with you and your gear. My mistake :( . BTW, I guess your KLR 650 gets better efficiency off-road and mountain climbing than most do - Considering that it will be lugging a minimum of 350# on your bugout (Plus its own weight) over rough terrain, 47 MPG is very good. Did you calculate the total weight and terrain to be crossed in your figure? With two jerry cans, I guess it doesn't much matter. You could get to the Canadian border with those along.

I still don't quite understand how one would conveniently attach two full 10 gal gas cans to a KLR and have it be suitable to be ridden ~250 miles through desert and mounains (You said you would be avoiding highways). That's a bit of weight (~180# starting out if you include the 8.5 gal in your tank). I guess you won't be making many sharp turns with those cans hanging down :) . I assume you'll be carrying a substantial amount of water to get across the desert (More cans? Pretty dry out that way most times) and at least some other gear too, right? I guess there must be a plausible way to do it on a KLR that I'm not aware of. Maybe you use a trailer or sidecar and travel light (Except for the gas and water) and you must be a top-notch rider.

You must have quite an interesting setup for your bike. I didn't have any idea that such a thing could be practical. Got any pics? Must look really cool.

I see you edited your profile to correct your (And Yahoo's, it seems) spelling error. Now it won't induce any more "paranoia" in me. Thanks. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Interesting point about the H20 I was thinking of three liters in my pack in a bladder. But know I am rethinking that, thanks. As to the time necessary to bug out, I can be in Tehachapi on backroads and through the desert in about 2.5-3 hours. So thats not a stretch. As to being a top notch rider hardly, its the same setup people ran through the baja 1000 twenty years ago. The terrain here is not bad the dirt roads are so overused that they are worn bare. As for gear I don't pack much equipment. Why would I? If its truly a survival situation that is grave enough to leave home there are plenty of things along the way to use. Damn I should take some pics of the bikes though. Maybe later.

I just reread your post and it seems that you down by LAX. I can see why your skeptical of my KLRs and escape plan. From there it would be a long, hard fight to mobilize. Lots and Lots of people and metal down there.
 
I am not an urban dweller, but to me it seems that each urban situation is different as to what might transpire, and how and when to best di di. Two main thoughts come to my mind though. First, situational awareness, and second, the "golden hour" that is so critical in medical emergencies. If you work out a plan ahead of time that is flexible enough to let you move away from the area and avoid gridlock, your best bet is to recognize a developing situation and go before it becomes critical. Through lack of experience and/or education and planning, this was my "gotcha" with my first Florida hurricane. By the time it was a reality that the hurricane landfall was headed for me, the one bridge out of my town to the West had been closed. The bay was breaching the deck of the three mile long bridge. The escape route to the East was clogged with traffic all the way to the Northern areas of the state. We hunkered and made it just fine on stashed supplies. The aftermath was another matter to be dealt with though. I did move away from the Gulf eventually.

Codger
 
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