Bugging OUT: How, When, Where and WHY?

To me, staying put makes the most sense if at all possible. There's no way you can be as prepared, supplied and protected on the move as you can at home, so leaving raises the risk factor at once. Depending on your location or the type of emergency though, clearly this might not be possible. You probably can't ride out that chlorine cloud or fall out coming your way. The next best thing then is to have a secure destination stocked and ready and a planned travel route (or two). Yes, you still have to be able to get there but if you're bugging out you might as well have someplace to go.

Nothing is perfect and reality is the odds are probably against success, but the fact that you can't prepare for everything doesn't mean you don't plan at all. You just hope the level of emergency doen't rise above your level of preparedness and look for luck wherever you can find it.
 
Happy Joe said:
Its easy to say "lets bug out to the woods". Its the answer than almost everone that has ever camped will come up with. When you arrive and find that the woods are chock full of lawless people (with even more following behind you) what do you do?
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Go uphill. Animals, including people, don't prefer walking uphill (unless there is some specific reason). People wandering through the area won't go uphill of their own accord.

In my own experiences, the biggest hindrance to keeping a low profile in the woods when you don't want others to find you is going to fetch water. If you're uphill, you often have to travel back downhill to resupply your water. And such movement can give away your location. Having the ability to store a great deal of water can be a big advantage.

There are of course more obvious ways to telegraph your presence like a smoky fire or shooting a firearm (which should be commonsense).
 
Blue Sky said:
Nothing is perfect and reality is the odds are probably against success, but the fact that you can't prepare for everything doesn't mean you don't plan at all. You just hope the level of emergency doen't rise above your level of preparedness and look for luck wherever you can find it.
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You said it, Blue Sky! :thumbup:
 
akennedy73 said:
Go uphill. Animals, including people, don't prefer walking uphill (unless there is some specific reason). People wandering through the area won't go uphill of their own accord.

QUOTE]

And what about the animals/people you meet coming downhill toward you?
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HEY!!! Another Mainer.......

I posted yesterday on Liam's thread.....I guess I missed this one entirely :o
Here's a bit of it.

I have never posted much on the SHTF or BOB threads before.
Frankly, I don't have a BOB per se. I have a Get me Home bag in the car should something happen and I either have to camp overnight, or make my way by foot. That was more of a concern when I was in sales and on the road all of the time......hell, I could be three hundred miles away from home sometimes with little or no notice.
Getting home has always been the top priority for me. I'm not in an urbanized area, nothing here to target, fallout from anything nearby should not be a problem. I have NO intention of leaving my home without good reason. Some of my buddies get all into this crap.....buggin out, livin' in the woods back to nature garbage. You let me know how that works out. I'm gonna sit by the wood stove with a nice hot cup of coffee while reading a book with my FAL across my lap. Actually an accurate quote would be "Why would I leave my house? THAT IS WHERE I KEEP ALL OF MY S#@T!!!"
Having said that......
I do have "evac" plans in case of some sort of massive "something" that I have not forseen. All evac plans begin with cars. Knowing when to evac and beating the traffic would be the kicker in my opinion. If i decided to pull out rather than stick it out, I am confident that we can be heading down the road with the car loaded and the tank topped off within ten minutes of notice.
Also, I'm just a short drive or a moderate walk from the ocean. If things were looking real bad for traffic I could always help myself to a boat. 35 knots, NO traffic jams. Its a BIG ocean out there. :D

I couple of poster are right on about physical health.....I can't count the ammount of times I have recieved "advice" from gunstore commandos that are in no shape to "bug out" from anything at all. Not to say that they shouldn't prepare like anyone else....but they aren't going far on foot.

One very valid question that was posted was concerning all of the people moving up here. These people are basically refugees. Mass, NY, Conn, RI...... what do ya do with them?
Hopefully the real lazy/nasty refugees will decide Vermont is far enough to walk. :) However, I'm not too far from MDI/Bar Harbor and the summer community is growing quickly on the coast. I believe we can expect anyone with a house or camp up here to decide this is a good place to bug out to.
I have never actually researched it, but I doubt any of the emergency services up here have any sort of supplies stockpiled in the magnitude that would be required. Things could get out of hand very quickly.
Not to mention other Mainers......Portland/Augusta/Bangor.....they will all empty out. I have friends in Bangor that I have extended an emergency invatation to, they are welcomed to come and stay with us. The idea of holding the fort in an apartment building with no lights, water, or heat while 36,000 people outside are trying to figure out WTF doesn't make me happy.
Of course (wow, I am getting longwinded here) the more people you have the harder your logistics are. Feeding two people for 30 days isn't much of a trick with good planning. However, a dozen people will blow through the same ammount of food in less than a week. So with the influx of refugees you have to keep things managable for your own. I don't wish to see anyone starve, freeze or suffer. I have planned so my family will not.....I can't let them suffer because others failed to plan.
Thats when some hard choices would be made.

90 days is a good timeline to work with I feel. By the end of that time either things have come under some kind of control or the population has sharply declined.
 
Nice to see some more Mainers around the board. I'll be honest, I never thought much about any of this stuff until recently. Surviving on my own is no problem but, now I have 2 other people to worry about, my girlfriend who I live with and her 7yo daughter. My main concern at this point is in case of a severe blizzard or, heavan forbid, another ice storm. I would say realistically we have enough food for about 2 weeks in the house at any given time. Just curious what you guys are doing to prepare for such an occurance.
 
aaronjayl,

I have wood heat and plenty of food. The ice storm back in 98 wasn't a whole lot of fun, but I faired well.....I am better prepared now. For me it would be a vacation from work and an opportunity to catch up on some reading. The only thing I might run out of are smokes and I really should quit anyway.
Aw hell, who am I kidding?!?! The wind gusts this week knocked out power around here and the first thing I did was stop and the first open store and bought a carton Camels. :D
 
Falnovice, This is precisely what i am talking about, you have thought it through for yourself, and your situation. Taken things into consideration, and made an informed decision. My point is that "Bugging Out" is not always the answer, and sometimes may be a really bad move.

I live on the East Coast, near population centers. BUT, my issue would be actually moving with the crowd. Where are they going? (No where, fast)
To end up in a government run camp?? No way.
Or, on their own? These are city dwellers, they WILL pee in every stream they see.

Unless forced out, which could also happen, I'll stay where "all my Sh^t is!"
If it's winter, forget it, I'll choose to defend my woodstove and pile of firewood, also.

I like your thoughts about 90 days. I would agree, if its not a Mega-disaster, things will be normalizing, if it is a "Biblical event" , after 90 days all the chaos will have died down, and most of those causing the chaos, too.

arronjayl:
I have two fireplaces, one with a woodstove in it. Plenty of heat. I keep enough wood stacked for such things.
Like you, we normally have 2 weeks worth of food, maybe more. During the middle ofwinter usually we have more. Buy in bulk you save money too!
I have a generator, but would use it judiciously to pump well water, as needed. Fuel can be siphoned from vehicles.
We have used our Coleman Propane lantern on occasions during power outages, cheap , powerful, and runs a good long while on a $2.50 bottle of propane. And, as a by-product, it gives off heat!
My buddy doesn't have a fireplace, and so he got one of these:
http://www.summitcampinggear.com/cosppocahewi.html

He picked up a 4-pack of propane bottles, so he has about 56 hours of emergency heat.
Even if it was sub-freezing out, he can close off rooms in his house, and heat just a main area, or bedroom.
It's usually lack of heat that forces people out to a hotel or motel, and they are all full (or without power, also).
 
This has been a very interesting thread with lots of good thought.

My only question with the bug out is I don't think most of us will get very far unless you really get out at the first sign of a problem. Like SkunkWerX, I live in the east, and on the edge of the nations capitol, Washington D.C. Trying to get out of here with just a snow storm going on is just short of impossable. Before I retired I had a commute that was about 45 minutes. When it really snowed hard and I did not leave work before noon, it took me three hours of fighting gridlock till I got in my front door. I think in a real disaster like a dirty bomb going off or something, the roads out of town will be long parking lots in very short order.

Our niece lives in Houston Texas and when they went to evacuate the city, she stood in traffic for 6 hours, then said screw it and turned around and went home to ride it out. She reported to us that it turned into a jammed gridlock real fast, and even the gas stations along the highway ran out of gas. Stalled cars on the highway made it even worse.

I've talked this over with the other half, and I wonder if you are not better off limiting what you take to a couple packs or duffle bags and using mountain bikes. One bag on a front carrier and another one on a back rack. Heck, the Viet Cong used bikes to carry mortar rounds and other supplies down the Ho Chi Minn trail for years. I think making evac plans around the family car or SUV may be a misatake, as you may have to abandon most of whats in the car when its locked in bumper to bumper stopped traffic. Explore alternate means of transport like bikes, boats, small planes. Keep your possesions light and mobile, and stay out of the gov'ts way and off thier radar by taking backways.

Unless it's radiation or biological, I'm bugging in. I have some wood for the fireplace, but I've stored lots of huge Sam's club double bag packs of Kingsford charcoal. That way theres no big pile of firewood out back, and a pile of glowing charcoal in the hearth warms the room and its easier to cook on. Theres Senaca Regional State park behind my house withlots of game, so I don't think we're going on the road unless its deadly to stay.
 
I think that you presume much . It is something we commonly do . Personally I think bugging out is such a dynamic event that all or almost all presuppositions will go out the window like a thief in the night .

You make many valid points such as actually looking at a map to plan a way around obstacles or rethink the route .

As said the dynamics are just too all consuming to get overly concerned about them . I try to take care of my family, keep my waist size small enough to fit in a pack belt and learn ,learn learn .

It is not whether bugging out is an option . It is keeping ones options open .
I think events of such magnitude as to make bugging out an option would make most of our perceptions alter to the point of making academic discussions a thing of the past .

I will take a look at local maps and try to find hikeable trails from various points of contention . maybe secondary rail lines through industrial parks . I,m just not sure . I may even get my fat couch potato butt up and walk a couple out beforehand .
 
SkunkWerX said:
arronjayl:
I have two fireplaces, one with a woodstove in it. Plenty of heat. I keep enough wood stacked for such things.
Like you, we normally have 2 weeks worth of food, maybe more. During the middle ofwinter usually we have more. Buy in bulk you save money too!
I have a generator, but would use it judiciously to pump well water, as needed. Fuel can be siphoned from vehicles.
We have used our Coleman Propane lantern on occasions during power outages, cheap , powerful, and runs a good long while on a $2.50 bottle of propane. And, as a by-product, it gives off heat!
My buddy doesn't have a fireplace, and so he got one of these:
http://www.summitcampinggear.com/cosppocahewi.html
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. The heat was my main concern. We're just kind of starting out together so for the time being, it's apartment living. No fireplace or secondary heat source. It's the power goes, then bye bye heat. Ive always been weary of kerosene heaters but, may have to take a closer look at them or even a couple of those coleman heaters. Any other heat recommendations?
 
If you decide to use a propane heater, this device might come in handy:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...e+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=propane+filler&noImage=0

It would save a lot of money vs. buying the 1-pound cans (I can fill a 20 pound tank for $10), provide another option for re-supply later if the pounders get scarce, and a grill-size tank would provide relatively safe, long term bulk storage, especially compared to kerosene.
 
jackknife said:
This has been a very interesting thread with lots of good thought.

My only question with the bug out is I don't think most of us will get very far unless you really get out at the first sign of a problem. Like SkunkWerX, I live in the east, and on the edge of the nations capitol, Washington D.C. Trying to get out of here with just a snow storm going on is just short of impossable. Before I retired I had a commute that was about 45 minutes. When it really snowed hard and I did not leave work before noon, it took me three hours of fighting gridlock till I got in my front door. I think in a real disaster like a dirty bomb going off or something, the roads out of town will be long parking lots in very short order.

Our niece lives in Houston Texas and when they went to evacuate the city, she stood in traffic for 6 hours, then said screw it and turned around and went home to ride it out. She reported to us that it turned into a jammed gridlock real fast, and even the gas stations along the highway ran out of gas. Stalled cars on the highway made it even worse.

I've talked this over with the other half, and I wonder if you are not better off limiting what you take to a couple packs or duffle bags and using mountain bikes. One bag on a front carrier and another one on a back rack. Heck, the Viet Cong used bikes to carry mortar rounds and other supplies down the Ho Chi Minn trail for years. I think making evac plans around the family car or SUV may be a misatake, as you may have to abandon most of whats in the car when its locked in bumper to bumper stopped traffic. Explore alternate means of transport like bikes, boats, small planes. Keep your possesions light and mobile, and stay out of the gov'ts way and off thier radar by taking backways.

Unless it's radiation or biological, I'm bugging in. I have some wood for the fireplace, but I've stored lots of huge Sam's club double bag packs of Kingsford charcoal. That way theres no big pile of firewood out back, and a pile of glowing charcoal in the hearth warms the room and its easier to cook on. Theres Senaca Regional State park behind my house withlots of game, so I don't think we're going on the road unless its deadly to stay.
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Bikes as bug-out vehicles --> good idea! :thumbup:

Kingsfor charcoal as an indoor heat source --> bad idea :thumbdn:

When charcoal is burned it gives off a poisonous gas called carbon monoxide, which you cannot see, smell or taste. If charcoal is burned indoors, or in an enclosed space, the gas cannot escape and it builds up in the air that you are breathing. Carbon monoxide can make you unwell very quickly and large amounts can overcome you in minutes without warning, causing you to lose consciousness and suffocate.

Your fireplace hearth may provide sufficient ventilation - or it may not. Regardless, you're risking your life to find out.
 
Other sources of heat: Here's what I'm planning to buy in the next day or so from Tractor Supply, as soon as they get them in: http://www.mrheater.com/productdetails_extended.asp?catid=41&id=116
Cost is about $120. I'll couple it to a 20 pound propane tank, which I have several on hand.

Regarding Kingsford charcoal, akennedy is right, but you could probably burn it in an enclosed boxstove that has a chimney to the outside. However, if you're going to do that, why not just buy compressed-wood fuel pellets? Anybody have experience with those?
 
"why not just buy compressed-wood fuel pellets?"
Why not just wood? If you have no forests near pallets are usually free.

Don't tempt fate with charcoal as a heat source it kills some people in tents or campers every couple of years around here.
Enjoy!
 
Some people may not have a place to stack wood.
here in the "urban east" there are a lot of townhouses, condo dwellers, and apt. dwellers.

That Buddy heater is definitely a Step above the Coleman, it costs more, but it's the cadillac. i got a Coleman a few eyars ago as a tent heater.
Call me a wimp, but, it was nice to light it about 5 am, so by 6 am you can get up, change clothes, be warm when it's 25°F outside.

I have one of those refill adapters for filling the small tanks (somewhere).
They do work.
You have trouble getting a full fill sometimes, it's better if the small tank is cold.
Who cares, even if you only get a 1/2 fill, you can refill over and over and over...

I think ther propane heaters are a good prospect for someone without a fireplace. Small for storage, and fuel storage is small also.
If you have them facing UP, you can even heat some Soup on them.
 
Happy Joe said:
"why not just buy compressed-wood fuel pellets?"
Why not just wood? If you have no forests near pallets are usually free.

Don't tempt fate with charcoal as a heat source it kills some people in tents or campers every couple of years around here.
Enjoy!
Click to expand...

I experimented with the chacoal idea last winter. I put a carbon monoxide detector put in, and left a window open a crack. We left the carcoal on the fireplace hearth all night with the damper open of course, and the detector never beeped. One night just to see if the detector was working we closed the damper halfway and closed the widow. About three hours later the thing started sqauking away in a very loud tone for a battery operated device. This experiment was done with the family room door to the upper levels of the house closed off, to contain any danger.

With the window on the other side of the room open cracked and draft up the fireplace flue, it works fine. The propane heaters are fine, but you can't cook on them. And wood pellet stoves need electricity to operate the fan and feed mechanisim I believe. I like the idea of having a cooking fuel sourse on hand that is out of sight of anyone, unlike a woodpile out back. And like SkunkWerX said, this is the urban east, and its not practical to set up woodcutting operations and storage. Besides, if I have to bug in, The more suppies I have that my hard put and unprepared nieghbors don't know about, the better.
 
Berlin, Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Stalingrad, Warsaw - even after their destruction many residents stayed and survived.

I am not too worried about chemical attacks. They are short lived and dependent on weather conditions.

Millions of Americans east of Nevada were exposed to radiation in the 1950's -1960's from the nuclear bomb testing sites at Yacca Flats. Generally speaking, most are still alive.

New York City is developing plans to move 4,000,000 people to eastern PA. Washington DC was looking at moving people to the Shenendoah Valley. Both cities have much work to accomplish.

A FLOOD may cause many to move. We know the response to Katrina.
 
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